What Do You Think Of Wild Turkey Today?

[cowdery]

This is a new thread but it's based on this post by Flintlock.

Since Turkey has just cranked up a new distillery, this might be a good time to assess the state of Turkey today. Recently another member here generously shared with me some WT 101 bottled about 20 years ago. It is superb, simply some of the best bourbon ever made. The WT 101 of today can't hold a candle too it.

I don't sense that the best stuff is going overseas, as Flintlock suggests. What I think has happened is that the equivalent of what was bottled as standard 101 in 1993 now gets held for Russell's Reserve, Rare Breed, Kentucky Spirit, and up from there. To get Turkey's best today, you have to at least go with Russell's Reserve, which is about $30 here, and is age-stated at ten years, but is only 40% ABV.

To get the good stuff at the full 50.5% ABV you have to go to the $50 Kentucky Spirit, which remains one of the finest bourbons on that market. It's not age-stated. If you want age-stated, at 14 years, at 101 proof you have to go with WT Tradition, at $100.

While we'd all like to get the best for less, I can't fault what Wild Turkey has done. Their best is still great and still available, you just have to pay more to get it.

But that's just what I think. I started this thread to find out what you think. If you think of it, indicate in your post how long you've been drinking Wild Turkey.

[OscarV]

I generally agree with Flintlock's rant, his word not mine, in the other thread.

Also Russell's Reserve 45% ABV.

[DeanSheen]

The old stuff was great. The new stuff not so much.

I think it's sad. I buy Rare Breed once in awhile but that's it.

[SMOWK]

I recently picked up 5 WT101 Old #8's from 1998 and even those are significantly better than the WT101 of today. The current stuff is still good, but given another 10 years, we'll see....

[jcg9779]

I haven't had old WT before, but I do like KS and RB, with RB being my favorite WT product that I've tried. I'm not a huge fan of the 101. I'll have to look for some older 101 to try!

[ebo]

Being a fairly recent convert to Bourbon (4 years), I've never had older Turkey. I have tasted WTKS and I think it is very good stuff. Rare Breed is pretty good, also. I think the 101 is very good for the price. I always have it on hand and drink quite a bit of it. The RR is good, no doubt, but the lack of proof doesn't make it worth the price to me. I hope to taste some older Turkey some day, but untill then, all I have to go on is what I've tasted... and I like WT 101.

[MJL]

Chuck,

My taste memory is not that good when we are talking decades. I think the fairest way to determine this is to have a side by side tasting. I have about 10 gallons of Wild Turkey 101 in storage (hurricane supply, end of the world stash, etc) that dates to about 2001 to 2009. I perceive no qualitative change so this makes me ask a question. At what point do you think this change over occured?

[Special Reserve]

Through the 80's and into the mid 90's WT101 was the go to drink for me.

This thread is helping me remember why.

WT101 from back then was a fabulous drink.

Inexplicably after that I drank vodka for awhile. Perhaps it was less expensive. Fortunately that habit didn't last too long.

Addition:

What do I think of WT101 today. I have a bottle on my shelf. It's ok but I'd go for spending about $5 more and getting a OWA 107 actually I really like the NAS bottling.

I think Chuck's assessment is spot on.

[Ian S.]

I always feel one of 2 ways when I see threads like this one or hear people talk about stuff like this....

1. It seems like "older" is always "better". Being relatively young and new to bourbon, I haven't been able to sample much of the older releases of anything.

2. Simply jealous of the fact that I seem to have missed out on some of the best bourbon ever made simply because of my age.

Has the quality of bourbon gone down over the decades?

[StraightNoChaser]

What I'm curious to know is if the new distilling facilities will at all impact the quality of WT bottlings across the board. I figure we won't know for quite a while until some of that juice starts getting bottled in the upcoming years

[B.B. Babington]

...after that I drank vodka for awhile...

It takes a brave man to admit his sins. I went through a gin phase. Filled with remorse, I repented, and have now moved on with my life.

[Special Reserve]

I always feel one of 2 ways when I see threads like this one or hear people talk about stuff like this....

1. It seems like "older" is always "better". Being relatively young and new to bourbon, I haven't been able to sample much of the older releases of anything.

2. Simply jealous of the fact that I seem to have missed out on some of the best bourbon ever made simply because of my age.

Has the quality of bourbon gone down over the decades?

Some older is better. We don't want to talk or remember the older products that did not measure up.

[T Comp]

Some older is better. We don't want to talk or remember the older products that did not measure up.

Exactly and most of the knowlegeable contributors in the history of this board have sorted them out. 1995 seems to be the cut-off year for when WT 101 abruptly started its fade. 1995 is still 16 years ago and certainly older but generally not viewed as better.

Chuck himself indicates clearly in his writings that older is not always better and that the golden age of bourbon is now. Here's what he had to say on the other board back in 2009.

"My view is that we live in the golden age of American whiskey and whiskey enthusiasts can only benefit by embracing that fact and reveling in their good fortune to have been born when they were.

These are the good old days.

Rather than viewing dusties as a contrary view, the availability of dusties just adds luster to the current era. There is excellent whiskey in current production, and there is excellent whiskey from years and even decades ago still available, and all of it is reasonably priced.

We are richly blessed.

One thing I will say about dusties. No one goes on the board to say how mediocre a dusty bottle they just opened was. You shout about the great ones. The others you suffer in silence."

His point that WT 101 was an excellent whiskey but no more is far from idolizing the good old days and its too bad that WT has gotten away with it.

[Ian S.]

Thanks for posting that, some well spoken points.

[OscarV]

One point was brought about all the good Turkey is for export.

Here is a quote from the WT website;

1980, Austin Nichols is bought by the Pernod Ricard Group, thereby opening an international exporting network for Wild Turkey bourbon.

Since then maybe the export market that has been a major focus by Wild Turkey.

Two years ago Campari bought Wild Turkey and it seems to me in their press release they said something to the effect that Wild Turkey sells very good in Japan and Austrailia and Campari wants to grow the European market.

With their expansion and ramping up production maybe they will let a few good barrels roll into the USA.

Also hopefully they'll bottle it in Lawrenceburg and not Arkansas because as Jimmy Russell said, "by the time it gets to AR it ain't the same whiskey."

[Special Reserve]

Exactly and most of the knowlegeable contributors in the history of this board have sorted them out. 1995 seems to be the cut-off year for when WT 101 abruptly started its fade. 1995 is still 16 years ago and certainly older but generally not viewed as better.

Chuck himself indicates clearly in his writings that older is not always better and that the golden age of bourbon is now. Here's what he had to say on the other board back in 2009.

"My view is that we live in the golden age of American whiskey and whiskey enthusiasts can only benefit by embracing that fact and reveling in their good fortune to have been born when they were.

These are the good old days.

Rather than viewing dusties as a contrary view, the availability of dusties just adds luster to the current era. There is excellent whiskey in current production, and there is excellent whiskey from years and even decades ago still available, and all of it is reasonably priced.

We are richly blessed.

One thing I will say about dusties. No one goes on the board to say how mediocre a dusty bottle they just opened was. You shout about the great ones. The others you suffer in silence."

His point that WT 101 was an excellent whiskey but no more is far from idolizing the good old days and its too bad that WT has gotten away with it.

[Brisko]

My first taste of WT was right at the end of the "great" years, probably in '93 or '94. I was about 16.

I don't recall a lot of details, as it was gulped in secret with a friend and probably not properly enjoyed, but it was one of the first bourbons I ever tasted and it has been the benchmark in my mind. Occasionally when trying a new bourbon, I get a fleeting memory of it. The funny thing is that I most often get these "flashbacks" with products that don't actually taste like the old WT-- WLW and Saz 18 are two... so maybe there is another factor causing those memories.

Today's WT is pretty good and I usually have a bottle open but it doesn't really measure up to the old "snuck from the liquor cabinet" expression in my mind.

[p_elliott]

As most of you know I am a WT nut, I love WT. I have had the older WT 101 it's very good, I have had some of the late 90's WT #8 and it is god awful. The current WT 101 is a very good bourbon for the price. It's my daily pour. One thing I will say about it is I don't drink it after I have drank something else it doesn't follow well. I think the weak link in the WT line is the RR and RR rye. I can't keep a bottle of WTRB in the house I open one up and it's gone. The WTKS is a little pricey for what you get. The special releases have been excellent. Now the down side to my post is I have only been drinking bourbon for 3 years so my opinion may not carry that much weight.

[AaronWF]

As a whiskey drinker in earnest for only the last six years, I have to say that WT has never figured in to my rotation. When I bought bottles without knowing what I was doing, it was pints of Jim Beam and J&B, and my snobby impression of WT was that it was rotgut motor oil.

This impression was helped along when on a cross-country road trip, I observed the lips-to-bottle dispatching of a handle of Wild Turkey by a shirtless, bandana wearing flat-bed truck driver during rush hour traffic in the outskirts of Atlanta.

I recently sprang for a bottle of RR 6 year-old rye. It's pretty harmless stuff, too sweet for my tastes, only softly hinting at grass and mint. It's also the kind of juice that will wake me up at 4:30 am the morning after drinking it, and not allow me back to sleep.

There's too much great stuff out there to waste my time on a brand with a mid-to-lower shelf reputation and special bottlings in the $100 range. Clearly, WT has a storied reputation, but it seems confused about its own place in the market today. I certainly am confused about it, which is a great reason to wet my whistle with some to find out where I stand on the subject!

[IowaJeff]

I've only been drinking bourbon, and WT, for about 6 years. I've not had the pleasure of tasting any older WT's. I always have a bottle of at least one WT iteration open. It has a unique flavor profile I gravitate towards.

I've had a lot of the current WT101 and RB. Both I enjoy a lot. The RB has a bit more concentrated, bold flavor. I've had a couple of bottles of the RR10 and liked it, but no more than 101, probably less. It strikes me as a little thin, kind of the opposite of what RB is to 101. I've had drinks of Kentucky Spirit and Tradition/American Spirit, but have never bought a bottle so I don't have much basis to compare those.

Overall I like the unique flavor profile that is consistent across the entire line. Its like Coke, its just unique from other brands.

[CADMixes]

I've only had limited experiences with the Turkey as well. My first was actually with the rye, which is one of the few whiskeys I've actively avoided since. I make a lot of rye cocktails, and the rye just had too much burn to be a useful ingredient IMO. Later, I gave a friend a bottle of Russell's Reserve as a gift and got a glass myself when he cracked it open. I think the proof complaints are valid, but at 90 proof and around 30 bucks I might take it over Eagle Rare. Recently I picked up some Rare Breed and am really enjoying it--it brings a heat and complexity that a lot of my recent open bottles were lacking.

Still never had the standard 101, though. It's a tough fit into my drinking habits--for sipping I prefer to go to slightly more refined, slightly pricier bottles, or a simple and pleasant wheater like OWSR. But if I'm going out or to a party I'll take something with less alcohol, where overindulgence might be less risky. I'm sure I'll pick up a bottle soon enough though.

[CorvallisCracker]

I honestly can't remember the last time I bought or drank any standard NAS/101. I usually just buy Rare Breed.

I suppose I should pick up a 200ml.

[bourbon-n00b]

When I first found my way into serious bourbon drinking (as opposed to swilling Beam and Coke in college) WT101 was my early favorite. I thought it tasted pretty darn good for something I could walk into pretty much any party store and get for around $20.

But then I started finding some of the older 8 year and, like many others here, was blown away by the richness and complexity. After that, the current stuff didn't taste quite as good and I became a little less ardent about it.

Don't get me wrong, it's still fine and way better to me than standard Beam, MM, JD, etc but it's no longer something I'd make a point to grab off a shelf with other viable options.

[LikeItWasSodaPop]

My dusty finds have been relatively "new" but the WTs I've found from the 90s have straight kicked my ass. My fiance loves them as well -- they are her favorite bourbons.

I don't know what's up with WT today, but after finding WT 8 year and Old #8 (and loving them so much) I am relatively disappointed with current releases. The Russel's Reserve is probably my second least favorite bourbon I've purchased. It makes my stomach churn.

[beerfactory]

What I think has happened is that the equivalent of what was bottled as standard 101 in 1993 now gets held for Russell's Reserve, Rare Breed, Kentucky Spirit, and up from there. To get Turkey's best today, you have to at least go with Russell's Reserve....

As someone brand new to bourbon, I find this interesting. My assumption is WT did not always have these pricier brands (or at least did not bottle them in sufficient quantity to affect WT101 stock).

Grading meat by marbling and maturity makes sense to me. It would seem the master distillers are looking for a profile and sorting out the whiskey by grade.

With this being a relatively new practice (that is an apparent/alleged "downgrading" of WT101) and assuming WT101 is their bestseller. Would this be good for the long term health of the brand?

also... does Evan Williams do this? I mean to ask: Were I to go looking for "old" EW black label, would the old stuff be better than what I'm drinking right now?