ethangsmith Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Interesting someone else mentioned Mellow Corn. I too noticed this was a BF distillation. I know HH has been making mention that they are evaluating new markets for Mellow Corn. Could this be in preparation for the switch to DSP-1 whiskey?On another note, I did a side-by-side tasting of my bottle of Rittenhouse and my bottle of Pikesville. While one is 80pf and 3yo and the other is 100pf and not age stated (but certainly older!), they are absolutely brothers. It would seem, by flavor at least, that Pikesville is still from the same distillery as Rittenhouse at this point. I'm hoping with the exploding popularity in Rittenhouse sales that HH does not decide to kill the Pikesville brand. It's the only $10 rye I know of- and it's dang tasty too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Dog Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Interesting someone else mentioned Mellow Corn. I too noticed this was a BF distillation. I know HH has been making mention that they are evaluating new markets for Mellow Corn. Could this be in preparation for the switch to DSP-1 whiskey?On another note, I did a side-by-side tasting of my bottle of Rittenhouse and my bottle of Pikesville. While one is 80pf and 3yo and the other is 100pf and not age stated (but certainly older!), they are absolutely brothers. It would seem, by flavor at least, that Pikesville is still from the same distillery as Rittenhouse at this point. I'm hoping with the exploding popularity in Rittenhouse sales that HH does not decide to kill the Pikesville brand. It's the only $10 rye I know of- and it's dang tasty too!!This is quite interesting. I'm too far gone at the moment, but I have both the current RittBIB, the Pikesville bottled about 2 years ago, as well as current Stephen Foster Rye, which is a 30 month, 80pr HH product. I'll let you know my thoughts when I get to doing a line-up.And I love me some MC DSP-354! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 According to Heaven Hill, we're still about a year away from seeing DSP-1 Ritt on the shelves. The first batches will come of age in February and probably start to appear at retail in March, 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yountvillewjs Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 According to Heaven Hill, we're still about a year away from seeing DSP-1 Ritt on the shelves. The first batches will come of age in February and probably start to appear at retail in March, 2013.You sir are the man! Great to know for those of us with hoarding tendencies (he says as he takes the last sip of his Ritt Manhattan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 You sir are the man! Great to know for those of us with hoarding tendencies (he says as he takes the last sip of his Ritt Manhattan). Dang straight, he's the man. Just ask Melanie Safka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburlowski Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Had a chance to taste some DSP-1 rye at 3y 6m. Still too young for prime time. Based on my limited experience, the jury is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Dang straight, he's the man. Just ask Melanie Safka. Nothing was ever proved and, it being the seventies, I have no memory of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I have a little bit of information about the Rittenhouse Rye made at DSP-KY-354. When Heaven Hill stopped buying it, Brown-Forman stopped making it. Both sides have confirmed to me that the Rittenhouse Rye made at 354 was Heaven Hill's yeast and mash bill. When Brown-Forman stopped making it at 354, HH started making it at DSP-KY-1. The point is that the 354-made edition of that recipe is no longer being made. All of the Rittenhouse Rye available now (except the very-olds) is DSP-KY-354. Theoretically, its successor will be the same, but it is a different distillery and distiller. If Brown-Forman should happen to launch a rye sometime in the future it will not be that rye, i.e., Rittenhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethangsmith Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 So that begs the questions:1. When did HH start rye production at Bernhem?2. Did BF stop rye production at the same time, and if not, when?3. Is Pikesville, at 3 years old, already Bernheim rye?4. And the million dollar question- When do we see DSP-KY-1 Rittenhouse hit the shelves?I'm sure not all of these questions are answerable at the present time, but I would be interested to hear of any of the KNOWN information regarding the switch over. I'm really looking forward to the Bernheim-produced ryes. I think they'll be just as good, if not better that what we have now. When it's all done in-house, I would think the surveillance and control of the product would be even greater. Although I always could be wrong- I hope not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Noobie question: I don't understand all this focus on distillery source. Isn't cooperage of much greater consequence? Everyone seems to infer the distillery is a paramount consideration, but the flavor is mostly derived from the cooperage. Is that a 'dirty little secret' or is it rarely discussed because less is known about it? I'm not suggesting mashbill, yeast and distilling processes aren't important, but the wood (and aging process) is mostly what I'm tasting in bourbon (and probably rye) and I would imagine mostly what produces a poor or superior result.Sorry to say, I've yet to see a bottle of Rittenhouse Rye offline. Edited July 30, 2012 by MauiSon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainWhip Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 They're all factors that contribute to the final product no? I'm a noob too but when I look at how many recipes 4Roses uses and how different they all are, it provides an interesting study on the effects of yeast/mashbill on taste. What percentage/weight does yeast or mashbill account for its effect on taste in the final product versus cooperage? I don't know.Of course, I'm assuming 4Roses barreling is relatively consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Okay, how many different distilleries is 4 Roses using to produce those different yeast/mashbill combinations? I believe your observation is supporting my position, not contradicting it. Every distillery can vary it's yeast and mashbill, but this focus on source distillery is independent of those considerations - else why question if the product from a different distillery, using the same yeast/mashbill will be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_elliott Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 MauiSon It would be very difficult to exactly duplicate a whisk(e)y in a different distillery even though you were using the same mash bill and yeast. Every thing is just going to work a little differently. The grain grinders are not going to grind the grain to exactly the same consistency, the still is not going to be exactly the same, one distillery may have cypress fermenters while the other has stainless steel, the warehouses are different and in different locations, etc. Does this make sense ? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Blacksmith Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Right, even just the piping going from fermenters to still to barreling location will change the way it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) It would surprise me to learn that a distiller couldn't manage to adjust variables to duplicate raw product - just look at the range of production at the multi-label distillers and the advances in modern distilling sciences. Cooperage and storage are an entirely different issue from distillery production, i.e., a distillery's production is often stored in different makes of barrels and different warehouses, even competitor's warehouses. I don't understand why you would suggest that the distillery, rather than the raw product buyer/owner, decides cooperage and storage (the aging aspects) of the product. Bottom line - I believe those aging aspects far outweigh any aspect added or subtracted due to distillery limitations (inability to duplicate white dog). Sorry if this line of discussion constitutes a hijacking. Edited July 31, 2012 by MauiSon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeox Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Sorry if this line of discussion constitutes a hijacking. It does, but is an interesting line of questions. Feel free to open a new thread about it to continue the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Dog Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 With all due respect, I find it quite pertinent, when you consider the original thread. Here we will certainly see what real difference DSP makes, since it's the same yeast and mashbill. HH was aging Ritt DSP-354, correct? I can't wait to sit down with RittBIB DSP-354 vs. DSP-1, as that's what MauiSon's thread drift is really all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restaurant man Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 With all due respect, I find it quite pertinent, when you consider the original thread. Here we will certainly see what real difference DSP makes, since it's the same yeast and mashbill. HH was aging Ritt DSP-354, correct? I can't wait to sit down with RittBIB DSP-354 vs. DSP-1, as that's what MauiSon's thread drift is really all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Yeah, comparing late DSP-354 with early DSP-1 should be the best 'head to head' we can get - hope I can score a pair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmckenzie Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 I know the difference in the mellow corn is huge. HH is much more flavorful. There will have to be a flavor difference. If I am not mistaken, Early Times thumps their whiskey, and HH doubles. In my opinion, thumping makes for a more flavorful product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) The point I was trying to convey is that there will be no rye whiskey made at DSP-354 using the Rittenhouse recipe and yeast sold as anything else except, obviously, Pikesville or some other HH rye. Brown-Forman was making it for Heaven Hill. As I clearly stated, when HH stopped buying it, BF stopped making it. I don't recall the exact date of the switchover, but it was close to four years ago. That is not to say BF has made no other rye whiskey at the Shively distillery. It's just to answer the speculation about whether or not they continued to make the Rittenhouse recipe for their own portfolio. A corollary is that all of the Rittenhouse they made over the years went to HH. Brown-Forman didn't make any extra for itself.I have had conversations about this with both the Heaven Hill people and the Brown-Forman people and their stories match up.The reason this switchover is interesting is because Rittenhouse Rye BIB is a bond. Therefore, it can only be the product of a single distillery, so HH has to go from bottling DSP-354 Rittenhouse to bottling DSP-1 Rittenhouse. There is no way for them to smooth the transition by mixing barrels from both for some period of time. As a bond, they are also required to identify the place of distillation on the label, so we won't have to guess when the DSP-1 stuff has hit the market. In no sense does this suggest the distillery is more important than cooperage and aging or anything else. It was a pretty broad leap to that conclusion anyway. Because Rittenhouse is a relatively small brand, and a BIB, this will a rare opportunity to taste a whiskey where the only variable is where distilled.Rare, but not unique, as we had a similar opportunity with EWSB's 'wilderness' editions ('97-'99), but that was a little different because there is some variation in a single barrel anyway. Anyone who has a bottle of DSP-31 Rittenhouse BIB can compare it from the other end.This is also interesting because, in some ways, DSP-354 Rittenhouse has been the posterchild for the rye whiskey rennaissance. It's become very popular with mixologists as well as consumers, and has been in short supply for the last several years. As further evidence of its popularity, its price has just about doubled in the last ten years without slowing it down. For all these reasons, Rittenhouse BIB a very important brand for HH and they are anxious for this transition to go well. There is every reason that it should because there shouldn't be a huge difference. In addition to the factors already mentioned, the two distilleries are similar in design and geographically close together, which reduces some of the possible variables.Perhaps I can feel the conspiracy theorists winding themselves up. I hope I'm wrong about that, but there's certainly nothing I can do to stop it. Edited August 3, 2012 by cowdery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Dog Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I don't see any conspiracy theories being floated on this one, Chuck. Just excitement to be able to taste same the mashbill/yeast/aging, but from 2 different DSPs. I'm simply looking forward to the side-by-side, as I'm sure most others are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I picked up a bunch of DSPKY354 the other day - just in case there's any "problems" with the DSPKY1 (relative to my preferences). Worst case I've got some interesting tastings to compare them in the future, or I could vat them together to "smooth the transition" myself...In reality, I'm pretty hopeful that DSPKY1 will be an IMPROVEMENT on the existing product, and also open up HH to allow for single-barrel selection programs, older/special editions, etc. By producing this in-house, it should afford them much more flexibility in experimenting, and also (hopefully) help to keep the price flattish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BourbonJoe Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 When I used to buy 354 and 31 Ritt BiB, I think it was around 8 bucks a bottle. I have bunkered a bunch of each to compare with the DSP 1 when it gets here.Joe :usflag: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I wish I had bought more when it was $11.99, but I probably would have just drunk it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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