Ordering bourbon (or any whiskey) in a bar

[JPBoston]

I was hoping some advice from my fellow bourbon lovers on what to expect when ordering bourbon at a bar... Apologies if this should have gone in the 'new to SB' sub forum.

Basically... just curious on the basics. The amount and the approximate cost.

For instance, several months ago, I went out to eat with my wife at a nice restaurant. They charged me $8 for a Woodford Reserve single, neat. Is this normal? I can't imagine ordering a double for $16. In a separate night out, I also ordered a Johnnie Walker Black and a Glenlivet 12yr single, and they were $7 and $9 respectively, iirc.

And that brings me to the next question. Singles vs doubles. Is the general rule 2oz for a single and 4oz for a double? Is the price always literally 'doubled' on the doubles?

It would be great info if you guys have some examples of bourbon or any whiskey that you've ordered recently and it's price. It's hard to shop around for whiskey prices at bars, so it'd be nice to know when we're not getting ripped off.

Thanks in advance!

-Joe

[callmeox]

The bar where I bowl charges 2.50 for a single and 3.75 for a double of Buffalo Trace. I think their standard pricing is a 50% discount on the "second".

I don't drink whiskey often when we go out since the average joint in my area carries Beam White, Maker's and occasionally WT101 or Woodford. I won't pay a premium for bourbon that I won't drink at home, so I stick with beer.

[sutton]

Depends where you are, type of restaurant etc. I paid $11 for a Blanton's (single) neat outside of NYC, and around $8-$9 for a KC on the rocks. The KC on the rocks had an "up charge" of $1.50, presumably because there was a bit more poured when on the rocks vs. neat.

At a dive, however, I paid around $6 for an extremely generous pour of WT101 neat ...

[Enoch]

I rarely order any whiskey because of price and limited selection. I usually get beer or wine and drink whiskey before or after at home.

[Flyfish]

Depends where you are, type of restaurant etc. I paid $11 for a Blanton's (single) neat outside of NYC, and around $8-$9 for a KC on the rocks. The KC on the rocks had an "up charge" of $1.50, presumably because there was a bit more poured when on the rocks vs. neat.

At a dive, however, I paid around $6 for an extremely generous pour of WT101 neat ...

I'm a cheap old geezer who buys bourbon by the handle. At $11 a shot, a 750 of Blanton's costs about $200; $8 KC = about $145; a "generous pour" of WT had better be about 1/4 to 1/3 of a bottle. For the price of a couple drinks in a bar, I'd rather have a whole bottle of AAA or VOB or OWA or BT or....

[Young Blacksmith]

Usually doubles are cheaper than two singles, on the rocks depends on the place, they may charge for ice or not.

I usually get a double, on the rocks, and when it's about 1/4 full I get a fill-up for the same price as a single if I'm sitting at the bar and they just fill it up without asking. If they ask it'll be the cost of a double. Good way to determine where to return, and whom to tip well.....

[Bourbon Boiler]

At a restaraunt, usually you say "neat", and receive a blank stare. Then you say "no ice, no water", and they don't bring you an ice water that everyone else at the table gets, while still putting ice in your whiskey.

[Kalessin]

While most bars will be completely honest about the size of their pours, the size of pour they use will depend on a number of factors, including local law and tradition, the character of the bar or restaurant, the character of the owner and/or management, etc. You may get 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75 or two ounces. If the bartender likes you or if it's the end of a bottle, you might get a little extra. Some jurisdictions require automated measuring.

The heavy shot glasses with a line are a measured pour that is to be measured looking down at the inside of the glass; looking at the outside of the glass, it always looks a little more full.

If I recall correctly, Massachusetts does not allow "doubles", or certain kinds of all-liquor drinks (like "Manhattan Iced Tea"). They also don't allow "happy hour" price discounts.

The price you pay is also to pay the overhead of rent, payroll, electricity, licensing, taxes, some profit on the business, etc.

I'll sometimes enjoy a bourbon at the start of dinner, and sure, Maker's Mark costs $8 or so for a shot, not including tip, but it's part of the overall experience. Since most places don't know what water on the side would be for, I often order it "with a cube".

[Enoch]

I went to a Hootie benefit for Pets Inc. about a year ago with a cash bar. They usually hire inexperienced bartenders. I asked for bourbon neat. She proceeded to put ice in the glass and pour Maker's on it. When I explained I didn't want ice she poured it out in the sink and filled up the glass (about 12 oz.) with straight bourbon for $7. When I explained it was too much she started to pour some of it out so I said it was OK I would take it. I love benefits.....

[StraightNoChaser]

At a restaraunt, usually you say "neat", and receive a blank stare. Then you say "no ice, no water", and they don't bring you an ice water that everyone else at the table gets, while still putting ice in your whiskey.

[ILLfarmboy]

I ordered a Maker's neat at a cowboy bar a few weeks ago. It came back shaken/chilled.

That's what I get for ordering Maker's.

[wadewood]

As a guideline, the typically cost of a drink at bar/restaurant is 25% of the cost of the bottle. So if Buffalo Trace sells for $20/bottle at liquor store, you should expect to pay $5.

For me, if the price exceeds this 25% formula, I figure they are ripping me off and generally will not order for them.

And if you are bar/restaurant owner with a decent whiskey selection and reading this, print a damn price list.

[ILLfarmboy]

And if you are bar/restaurant owner with a decent whiskey selection and reading this, print a damn price list.

[soad]

As a guideline, the typically cost of a drink at bar/restaurant is 25% of the cost of the bottle. So if Buffalo Trace sells for $20/bottle at liquor store, you should expect to pay $5.

Makes sense. I'm always amazed at the mark-up over liquor store retail at my local hole-in-the-wall....but you're not just paying for the drink, you're paying for the atmosphere/good times....:grin:

[MarkEdwards]

There's an "Irish pub" up in Dallas that charges $12 for about an ounce og Jameson's 12, and $18 for about an ounce of Jameson's 18. And it looks like a lot less because they serve it in a large brandy snifter.

I forget what they charged for the Guinness, but it was delicious.

[Bourbon Boiler]

And, restaraunteurs, keep all you bourbons/whiskeys together when on display. I can spot the red wax from across the room, and don't look outside that general area. I almost missed an ER10 last week.

[bllygthrd]

.

And if you are bar/restaurant owner with a decent whiskey selection and reading this, print a damn price list.

I agree totally! I love restaurant's that have whiskey lists [like wine lists]. I also have these additional tips:

Always watch your drinks being poured, you can catch the "on the rocks" errors, and also verify that you are getting what you paid for. I have no qualms about telling the bar keep that his pour was " a bit light".

Tip your bar keep well ... I usually order myself a drink first, and give him a 50% tip. Then, when my son and sons-in-law arrive, and I order a round of bourbons ... we usually get very generous pours.

[BillP]

My local place charges $4.75 for WT101 neat and $5.25 on the rocks. The staff has been trained to pour a double if you order "on the rocks." Has anyone else heard of this?

[Kalessin]

If I recall correctly, Massachusetts does not allow "doubles", or certain kinds of all-liquor drinks (like "Manhattan Iced Tea"). They also don't allow "happy hour" price discounts.

Duh. I had Manhattans on the brain (and a tasty one at a party last night). I meant "Long Island Iced Tea".

[StraightNoChaser]

My local place charges $4.75 for WT101 neat and $5.25 on the rocks. The staff has been trained to pour a double if you order "on the rocks." Has anyone else heard of this?

This is going to vary from bar to bar. At my favorite bar it's $2 extra for rocks OR neat, which you receive a 2oz pour of. The other option would be in a mixed drink, like a bourbon and coke, with a 1.5oz pour.

Part of the reason most bars pour extra in rocks is because the a standard pour will look small in a glass of ice.

[jeanraulmitchell]

Until I know the bartender, I ask for what I want exactly by giving them(bartender or waiter) specific instructions, "I would like a glass of ________ in a snifter, if they don't have that, in a wine glass that isn't cold and I only want the bourbon in the glass, no ice, water or anything else, please" and if I get a "you want that neat" response, then I trust them and no matter, by the time I get two drinks that way, they remember me, I tip them well enough for them to give me a better pour next time.

Mark up is crazy!, but you pay for what you get...one of my favorite places has Schott Zwiesel Pure Cognac glasses and everything tastes incredible out of those, so an extra dollar or 2 on my Willett 5yo rye doesn't bother me. And with good friends and a nice context, it just tastes better. That's what it's for, right?, to enjoy with friends, at least sometimes. Sure, I can invite them over and let them drink my bourbon, but in the end, I probably save cash by just buying my own drink at the bar and let them drink whatever they want. Plus, at the bar, I don't have to convince anyone that WLW is not too strong to drink neat and later have to buy new glasses because WLW was strong enough that their grip was lost after the first pour, glass goes everywhere and costs me $15 and now my home bar tab is $55(8 glasses of WLW with 4 friends is $40 and $15 for a new riedel glass).

Just saying. Yeah, I'm picky about glasses especially at a bar. If I have to drink out of plastic then it better be pretty freaking special stuff in a difficult situation.

[Bourbon Boiler]

As a guideline, the typically cost of a drink at bar/restaurant is 25% of the cost of the bottle. So if Buffalo Trace sells for $20/bottle at liquor store, you should expect to pay $5.

Wow. A rule of thumb is a 50% markup (33% margin) at the retail level. Thus the distributor sold that bottle of Buffalo Trace for about $13.34. Sell three servings for $5, and the acquisition costs are covered.

[JPBoston]

Thanks for all the great replies, fellas!! So many great points in this thread.... but this one hit home for me:

As a guideline, the typically cost of a drink at bar/restaurant is 25% of the cost of the bottle. So if Buffalo Trace sells for $20/bottle at liquor store, you should expect to pay $5.

For me, if the price exceeds this 25% formula, I figure they are ripping me off and generally will not order for them.

And if you are bar/restaurant owner with a decent whiskey selection and reading this, print a damn price list.

Glad I'm not alone in this one. I feel like such a jerk when I need to ask how much a certain whiskey costs.... why the hell don't they just print it out for us? **and thanks for that formula as well, that will be very handy**

And as for incompetent bartenders... When I ordered my Johnnie Walker Black neat (their bourbon selection was not much more then Maker's, so I decided to try some scotches), the bartender brought it to me in a rocks glass, filled with ice... but also completely filled with JWB. I reminded her I ordered it neat, so she very gladly strained the already-poured JWB into a separate glass AND brought me an actual JWB neat as well. Now that's value! Needless to say, she got a very nice tip at the end of the night.

Not to tweak any nerves... but I have no idea how people can order scotch on the rocks... even the order I had that was strained almost immediately, tasted like whiskey flavored water... like if Vitamin Water had a 'scotch flavor'.

[tommyj1986]

I have a personal rule of 'order for your bar'. There is a large variety of bars in my town, and even though whiskey is my preference, I order what I perceive as the best option for me at the time and mood (mood usually dictates my watering hole too). For example there is a bar where I can get a small pitcher of Yuengling (about 2.5 to 3 pints) for $5, they also have good pricing on whiskey, but it is all the usual suspects. Another bar in town has higher prices but an amazing selection, they also know 'neat' and they do weekly whiskey tastings, I'll pay a premium there for the chance to try something new or revisit an old friend because thats what their selection is good for. If I want a good deal, I'll either drink at home, or hit up a local place that does top shelf doubles for $6.50, in cocktails or neat, but there selection, like mine at home, varies from time to time.

As far as ordering at a bar I don't frequent, then I do something 'safe'. Whiskey on the rocks has proven to be a good deal for me, one of the supper clubs in my hometown sold me a Makers on the rocks for $7, but it was about 4 to 5 oz worth of whiskey. I've been fortunate enough that I don't recall a bartender not knowing what neat means, but I find waitstaff tend to look at you confused. Also I always tip generous and try to say something clever to be more memorable.

[Restaurant man]

As a guideline, the typically cost of a drink at bar/restaurant is 25% of the cost of the bottle. So if Buffalo Trace sells for $20/bottle at liquor store, you should expect to pay $5.

For me, if the price exceeds this 25% formula, I figure they are ripping me off and generally will not order for them.

And if you are bar/restaurant owner with a decent whiskey selection and reading this, print a damn price list.

1. We do have a whiskey list. Those who don't aren't trying for great service. None and I mean none of my servers could be expected to remember all those whiskeys.

2. The percentage thing is a sliding scale. My house vodka is $10 per btl and we get 6.50 per 1.25oz. Killer huh? But most of our liquor sold is premium or crazy premium like Louis XIV which costs me $80 an ounce and we charge $100 an ounce. So on that one your percentage check will make u feel good. As a general rule for most of the "good stuff" I look for between 25%-33% cost.

3. A bottle that costs 25$ and is sold for 100$ after all the drinks are served is NOT a 75$ profit. Not even close! After the glass is bought (and broken) and the rent/lights/credit card commission/ labor/taxes/management fees/ insurance/etc. Ad naseum. The bartender is clearing more than the house on that bottle

4. Pour sizes do vary from place to place but also by how the drink is served/mixed. Mixed drinks are usually 1.25-1.5 oz. But when served in a "martini" we serve 3oz and add a dollar to the cost of the drink. So that over a double pour for about 12% more money. Rox and neat pours add another oz or so for .75 more. So if u mix and are really economical (read cheap) order rox with a "splash" or get your mixer on the side. Or just don't be a wuss and drink it neat or on the rox

Anything I missed?