Ordering bourbon (or any whiskey) in a bar

[LikeItWasSodaPop]

Reading this board has turned me into a cocktail or wine/beer guy when out. There's just a few bars in all of Chicago that can compete with what I have at home, so why bother paying a premium for what at best amounts to an "everyday pour"?

That said, when I do want whiskey, the key is to stand back for a bit -- order a beer, maybe -- and watch the bartender(s). Who's in charge? Do different bartenders pour differently? Does one seem to be more knowledgeable or capable?

There are two major factors: bar policy and personality. You can't overcome bar policy but personality will get you far if you have it.

For example, Delilah's in Chicago has an amazing selection. Yet I'll never order another bourbon there in my life because their pours are pathetic. I don't mind a bartender measuring out a pour of something expensive, but these folks act as if they have a gun to their heads and those last few tenths of an ounce are the difference between life and death. No amount of charm will change this -- at least in my experience. The pours are rigid, mechanical, no matter what, no matter whom.

Contrast that with Twisted Spoke, where the pours are deep and glorious. I'm not saying that I need the house to lose money on my drink -- especially the great places like the Spoke that curate phenomenal whiskey lists -- just that the pour be fair. What constitutes fair, is, of course, open to interpretation, but I like "fair" to get "fairer" as the night goes on. In any event, the Twisted Spoke bartenders love to talk bourbon, totally know their shit, and definitely hook you up -- and then some -- if you treat them right. This is, I believe, how it should be. And I reward them with repeat business and 40% tips for it.

So developing a relationship with the bartender is key. If you can't do that, you're basically taking luck of the draw. Bartenders deal with douchebag idiots all night long. Showing you understand whiskey is a big deal -- most people don't know a thing. But I have been running into a problem: the chip on his shoulder bartender who gets mad at you for knowing more about whiskey than he does. Know-it-alls beware.

In Chicago, I really love Danny's for a nice pour, FWIW. 2.5 fingers regularly in a large Old Fashioned glass. Also, a hot redhead at Five Star on Chicago just gave me two fingers of Stagg (ow, that sounds really bad) for like $12 recently. I made sure to show my appreciation, let's just leave it at that.

[wadewood]

1. We do have a whiskey list. Those who don't aren't trying for great service. None and I mean none of my servers could be expected to remember all those whiskeys.

2. The percentage thing is a sliding scale. My house vodka is $10 per btl and we get 6.50 per 1.25oz. Killer huh? But most of our liquor sold is premium or crazy premium like Louis XIV which costs me $80 an ounce and we charge $100 an ounce. So on that one your percentage check will make u feel good. As a general rule for most of the "good stuff" I look for between 25%-33% cost.

3. A bottle that costs 25$ and is sold for 100$ after all the drinks are served is NOT a 75$ profit. Not even close! After the glass is bought (and broken) and the rent/lights/credit card commission/ labor/taxes/management fees/ insurance/etc. Ad naseum. The bartender is clearing more than the house on that bottle

Does your whiskey list include prices?

Agree that the markup should be a sliding scale and get lower as bottles get more expensive. An exception you might see is one off bottles that are not replaceable could be priced at "market" price. I say, skip these at drink them at your home bunker or the Gazebo.

I think most of us do realize the difference between gross and net profit and know bars/restaurants are running a for profit business.

[Halifax]

...

3. A bottle that costs 25$ and is sold for 100$ after all the drinks are served is NOT a 75$ profit. Not even close! After the glass is bought (and broken) and the rent/lights/credit card commission/ labor/taxes/management fees/ insurance/etc. Ad naseum. The bartender is clearing more than the house on that bottle

Actually that IS a $75 gross profit. The other variables that you mention are expenses, and not a part of cost of goods sold. The margins in the restaurant industry are insane compared to other traditional retail establishments. But hey... If you can get it... Well then... By all means.

[StraightBoston]

Back to the original question: $8 for a pour of WR is within a buck of "normal" in my experience. Reasonable prices for me are: a shot of anything mid-shelf is $5 or up; call bourbons are $7-8; "fancy" bourbons $10-12; up to $20 for Pappy 20 at a steakhouse.

But: as pointed out elsewhere, almost everyplace I go has only Beam white, the Beam Small Batch Collection, and Makers, so I'm usually drinking beer or a cocktail.

[macdeffe]

I wrote this a bit ago "why-i-dont-drink-whiskies-in-bars" :

http://danishwhiskyblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-i-dont-drink-whiskies-in-bars.html

It's not that focused on bourbons, but maybe there is similar problems in bourbon bars ?

The title is a bit misleading as I often drink whiskies in bars, but sometimes a bit of exagarations is needed :-)

Steffen

[politely]

I'm a bit confused by some of the responses about tipping 40-50% for more generous pours. At first, it seems that the customer just pays more per pour, the same as if they had ordered more at the original price (with a smaller tip), but instead of the money going to the owner, it's being pocketed by the bartender, who is in essence stealing from the bar, unless it's been approved by the owner. Maybe it's just game theory with the customer & bartender winning and the bar owner losing? Different numbers will provide different outcomes, but here's one quick look:

Regular tipper who receives regular sized $10 drinks:

4 drinks x 1.5 oz x $10 = $40 + 20% tip = $48 for 6oz = $8/oz

Big tipper who receives extra large $10 drinks:

4 drinks x 2.0 oz x $10 = $40 + 40% tip = $56 for 8oz = $7/oz

So, in this situation, the customer pays less per oz and feels like a big shot, the bartender makes double tip and feels like a star, and the owner is out 2oz ($13.33) worth of drinks, but may have built up customer & employee loyalty?

[Enoch]

Right or wrong (and I think wrong) I was at a Kenny Chesney pre-show party with a cash bar. I tipped the bar tender generously as I always do because I tended bar in college. When they called last call I went up to get one last shot of bourbon. She pulled out a large cup and gave me about 8 oz and said since I took care of her she was going to take care of me. My point: generous tipping may affect the pour. (being a cute girl may also have the same effect). Now the two examples I have mentioned In this thread are the exceptions and i generally order wine or beer unless there is a bourbon I haven't had.?...........

..........and a good looking female bar tender may really rake in the tips, generous pour or not........ask my niece who works at Hooters.