$250K for 1913 STITZEL WELLER'S ORIGINAL BOURBON, kidding me

[bourbonNOOG]

I am not doubting that the tax stamp and the Tennessee stamp aren't real. However, acquiring those from other bottles isn't that difficult. Apply some heat to soften the adhesive and wa-la you can remove just about any label.

I would like to point out the following:

1) Why is the Tennessee sticker / Tax stamp in such horrible condition while the main sticker is in near-mint condition?

2) In the picture that shows the most detail of the Tennessee stamp, you can see a ghosted shape of the glue just below it. That is a sign of re-attachment with fresh glue and then it moved.

3) The foil wrapping is NOT on the top. Also, in one of the shots you can see GLUE coming from underneath it. To my knowledge, foils aren't glued on.

4) Seriously take a look at those shot glasses. Flur De Lis and keys? Really? For Bourbon? You don't think Weller would have possibly put their own logo or no logo at all?

5) That box is covered in paper with a fancy crest. This has got to be from England, Scotland, or from France. This isn't from the US made.

6) Also, there is no age statement. I didn't think NAS was very popular back then.

I am telling you, this item is 100% fabrication. Discussing it's province is a pure waste of time. It's just a standard bottle of WLW cask strength (probably 2010 release). He attracted people with the high price tag and waited for people to offer. I bet he takes the highest offer.

I'm not saying the sellers item is real or fake, but there is a similar item on eBay currently with identical shot glasses in a similar box. The box in the outrageously overpriced auction looks nicer, but still... the guy probably has something special. Is it worth what he's asking... no. No bottle of alcohol is worth a quarter of a million dollars (in my opinion). I imagine like others have stated, he is putting the high price to drive traffic and get exposure with the hopes of getting a fairly substantial offer.

Again, I'm not affiliated with either auction, just posting the above as a reference of comparison to the other.

Edited July 24, 2012 by callmeox
No eBay links permitted

[cowdery]

Everything about this item is authentic except the words "Barreled in 1913," which were added. That's my conclusion. The back label was removed because it would have put the lie to the "Barreled in 1913" claim. So, it's clever, I guess. If the person had asked, say, $1,500 they might have gotten it, no questions asked. The suggestion that it should be worth $250,000 suggests a not-very-clever scammer, because nobody is going to pay that. Even if it was 100% authentic, that's a ridiculous price.

Aside from that, this is a typical Stitzel-Weller package from the late 1950s or 1960s.

If the "Barreled in 1913" was true, there would have been more story on the bottle and in the package. As it is, absolutely nothing supports the claim.

Anyone have any ideas about what PEOL (left side of the label) means?

So what this really is, probably, is an NAS bottling of SW whiskey, at 100 proof, in a fancy gift box. Because it's SW from the heyday, it might legitimately be worth a couple hundred, but that's it.

Edited July 24, 2012 by cowdery

[Bmac]

Ok fair enough, the box and it's glasses could be legit. But that bottle screams fake to me. I still see bad glue marks, and the top to the foil is missing. If it is legit...I would say the bottle has been opened at the very least.

[cowdery]

The front label was probably removed to make the 'Barreled in 1913' imprint.

[Bmac]

The front label was probably removed to make the 'Barreled in 1913' imprint.

What about the missing top part of the foil and the glue coming out from under it? If they removed the label, do you think they might have removed the original contents and re-filled with something else?

[Lazer]

The golden glow of the whiskey says chill filtration to me. And the missing foil on top is weird. :cool:

[callmeox]

What about the missing top part of the foil and the glue coming out from under it? If they removed the label, do you think they might have removed the original contents and re-filled with something else?

The contents are incidental to the collectible container

Or something like that.

[cowdery]

What about the missing top part of the foil and the glue coming out from under it? If they removed the label, do you think they might have removed the original contents and re-filled with something else?

Entirely possible. Or they concocted this scheme after finding the complete set, contents already gone. I can imagine someone who received this as a gift opening it and drinking the whiskey (as God intended), but carefully preserving the closure so the set could be restored to its original condition, sans whiskey, and 'saved' as people do. The original recipient dies and this winds up in a yard sale. I buy it for 50 cents, and then concoct this brilliant scheme.

That, to me, is a reasonable scenario. Then all the person has to do is refill the bottle, restore the foil capsule as well as possible, and add one line to the label. Not that difficult. But he got greedy.

Either that or the whole thing is a huge goof, i.e., a joke.

Then again, the more you get to know people, the more you see how oddly some people's brains work.

[wripvanwrinkle]

What about the missing top part of the foil and the glue coming out from under it? If they removed the label, do you think they might have removed the original contents and re-filled with something else?

The hole in the top is consistent with the Old Fitz foils that I have seen.

.

Edited July 25, 2012 by wripvanwrinkle
added image

[cowdery]

So here is a similar bottle from about the same time, probably a little later, but definitely pre-1979. Note the similarity in the lower part of the front label and even the age statement in red, the only red ink on the label. Note also the sealed top of the foil capsule, and the characteristic back label.

Let's start the bidding at $243,795.

[Lazer]

The age statement on Chuck's bottle is sitting in the middle of white-space on the label not stamped over part of the design.

[bourbonv]

The label is a design I have seen in label books from the late 1940s, not the 1960s. I have never seen in the Stitzel-Weller records of such a bottling in the 1960s. I would not swear from just looking at photographs that it was faked, but I certainly would not purchase the bottle on line at any price.

Mike Veach

[cowdery]

I was hoping Mike would weigh in, because it also occurred to me that if SW had ever done a bottling like that, at any time in its history, we would probably know about it.

[Bmac]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13952[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13953[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13954[/ATTACH]

So here is a similar bottle from about the same time, probably a little later, but definitely pre-1979. Note the similarity in the lower part of the front label and even the age statement in red, the only red ink on the label. Note also the sealed top of the foil capsule, and the characteristic back label.

Let's start the bidding at $243,795.

Thanks Chuck. That does make some of the data on the main label more viable.

I'd buy it for 10 dollars just to see what IS in it

[tommyboy38]

Looks fairly legit to me and similiar to other VOF, VVOF's I have.

[NorCalBoozer]

I have collected many VOF, VVOF from the 40's-70's. I have a fairly good knowledge of the bottles.

This looks like a 50-60's era Very Old Fitzgerald that has had the front and back labels removed. Also the paper neck ring below the foil is missing. Typically there would have been a paper ring that stated '8 years old' or '12 years old' etc. It looks like it has been ripped off.

The top of the foil with black cap sticking thru is correct for this bottle.

The Box and glasses are the standard presentation box that both VOF and VVOF could have came in. There are also green boxes and I think I have a yellow box.

Although it's hard for me to believe, i do have to say that I think the whole front label could be fake. It has very crisp die cuts and the label look like rather thick stock, not typical to a S/W label. Also the browning seems odd. The Tax Strip and top of bottle and tax stamps show significant age/wear, while the label doesn't. The browning on the label looks like color not age. What blows my mind is why someone would go to the trouble to make this fake label with all the gold embossing etc.

In any event I don't think this is anything but a standard VOF.

--Greg

[Restaurant man]

This site has saved me soo much money. I was just about to "buy it now" until I read this. But seriously consider this the starting gun of whiskey fakes. Save your receipts. The wine industry is finally cracking into this. "80 percent of pre 1980 burgundies available at auction are fake" says Laurent ponsot. That is crazy and it is a certainty to be headed to the bourbon collectors if it is not in full roost right now. The prices are pushing the drinkers out of the market and leaving only speculators, who may never even open their bottle or when they do, proclaim the contents "magically transforming" when it is really just a VOB in a VOF bottle.

[bourbonv]

I think NorCalBoozer hits it pretty close to the mark. I am curious if there is anyone silly enough to bid on the bottle at that price.

Mike Veach

[yountvillewjs]

Assuming this is fake, why on earth would you ask $250K for it? You are begging for exactly the kind of scrutiny its gotten.

[p_elliott]

Cuz your stupid :hot:

[SMOWK]

Cuz your stupid :hot:

[p_elliott]

I didn't like my grammer teacher in HS either.

[NorCalBoozer]

I went into the bunker for further research...

This is most likely a Very Old Fitzgerald 8 y.o. from approx early 1960 or earlier. That is around when the red tax strips changed over and matches the date on the bottom of the bottle.

The 8 y.o. is the only bottle in that line that didn't have the gold veining on it.

Also, again regarding the suspect label something else stuck out to me...the term "bottled by Stitzel Weller Distillery, Inc."

I could not find that wording 'inc.' was used on any of the Old Fitzgeralds I have. Maybe some Old Weller's from that time period did, so I can't comment but it does stick out as odd that it says "inc." and just another possible indication that the label is fake.

It is most likely an older 8 year VOF pre-1960 which is worth a decent sum.

It's pretty obvious to me it's not bourbon barreled in 1913. The guy is obviously educated enough to KNOW about S/W and comment on the bottle dates, so to me this is a fraudulent bottle and the lister knows it.

The oldest bottles I've had from S/W where all from the early 1940's....and they are very rare.

[cowdery]

It's "You're" :)

That bothers you, but you're okay with 'cuz'?

[p_elliott]

Assuming this is fake, why on earth would you ask $250K for it? You are begging for exactly the kind of scrutiny its gotten.

Cuz your stupid :hot:

Will of of course I didn't mean you were stupid I meant the ebay guy was was stupid.