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Average Pappy prices?


Jasongar8
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I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were

ORVW- $69.99

Lot B- $99.99

PVW 15- $159.99

PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

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I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were

ORVW- $69.99

Lot B- $99.99

PVW 15- $159.99

PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

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Sorry about that. I'll read a little more before I ask anything else.

I have only been into bourbon for about six months so I didn't know about price hikes from last year.

A Mod. can close this if need be.

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I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were

ORVW- $69.99

Lot B- $99.99

PVW 15- $159.99

PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

That's insanity. Yeah, it's good stuff but not worth bankrupting yourself. Keep looking, and in the meantime buy something that you'll probably enjoy just as much for a fraction of the price.

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I got a call from a local store the other day to tell me they got their Pappy in and I asked the prices. Here is what they were

ORVW- $69.99

Lot B- $99.99

PVW 15- $159.99

PVW 20- $209.99

I haven't ever bought any Pappy products and I thought these were high so I passed. So how did those prices compare with your local store?

Good targeted thread topic Jason. The pricing information regarding PVW is strewn over dozens of threads and your title helps zero in on specific pricing around the country. What has become a very apparent and large leap in retail prices for Van Winkle products this fall, this thread is quite appropriate and interesting.

Here in VA, the only VW product available is PVW20 thru special order, and even that is highly allocated to a trickle of cases entering the state. Last fall PVW20 was $109, this year the state controlled liquor monopoly is fetching $135 per bottle...which I guess is a bargain compared to many other areas.

Welcome to the journey Jason and thanks for contributing and for posting about such a popular topic, VW product. Those are some wildly high prices you have alerted us to.

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Not sure if this thread will go anywhere, but I thought I'd offer my 2 cents FWIW.

Here in Ontario, liquor is not only state controlled, but also brutally taxed. On average, we pay about 50% premium over US prices (it varies from about 30% more to double in some cases). This summer, Pappy 20 was made available on a special order basis for $120. We didn't get any other Van Winkle products. The same special order offered this year's Stagg & ER17 for $100. Some years ORVW10/90 and/or Lot B show up on shelf, in minimal quantities. Last year they were available, at $55 and $72 respectively.

Our prices on a few other BT bottles, for reference: BT $40, ETL $55, ER10 $48, Baby Saz $45.

The moral of my story? We get hosed on the regular releases, but for whatever reason the allocated bottles are priced reasonably. Go figure.

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The average Pappy price........ is above average.:rolleyes: Kinda says it all in a nutshell.

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Saw some Lot B in the wild yesterday for $99.99.

At the same store where I bought all of my PVW20 for the same price less than two years ago.

Decided I'm good with the handful of ORVW107s, VWFRRs, PVW15s and PVW20s that I've got bunkered.

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Saw some Lot B in the wild yesterday for $99.99.

At the same store where I bought all of my PVW20 for the same price less than two years ago.

Decided I'm good with the handful of ORVW107s, VWFRRs, PVW15s and PVW20s that I've got bunkered.

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I spent some of this past Saturday and parts of the last 3 evenings trying to gather in a few bottles I had put off buying as the Christmas rush tends to empty out some of the better offerings in my area. In doing so, I asked about the rumored Pappy arrival in the Memphis metro area. Same story everywhere I went: just a few select stores received any at all and the few who did had everything spoken for already. While this was not totally unexpected, what was unexpected was to find out how very little came into the area: somewhere between 24-48 bottles in total spread out between about a dozen stores. This is a reduction of more than 50% from this time last year. A few stores said they got a grand total of 1 bottle. Also, it does not appear that any VWFRR was shipped to said area. Also, what was even more disconcerting was hearing that there will be a 25% price increase in the 2013 Pappy release. All in all, glad I was not in the hunt this year and if the price increase is more than rumor, not likely I will ever again get a "Pappy Hunting License".

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In Washington state, there were very few bottles allocated in general and the distributor who has monopoly on BTAC/Pappy has been denying bottles to retailers (saving the bulk of the bottles for restaurants).

Given the recent transition from State Monopoly, all-time Pappy/BTAC hype, and Young's Distributors unpopular (some would say unfair) practices, we are seeing an already ridiculous scene exacerbated by this perfect storm of circumstances.

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Also, what was even more disconcerting was hearing that there will be a 25% price increase in the 2013 Pappy release.

OMG PVW WTF!?

A 25% price increase is steep. This is especially true since since there was already a large increase this year which is compounded.

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This is another thread that I really don't want to wade in to, but I can't help myself.

Many SB'ers noticed the additional marketing push by the Van Winkles in the last few years and there were some questions here about the motivation.

I wonder if the expanded marketing and increase in retail pricing is just a factor of the difference between the cost of the SW barrels that they sourced and bottled for years and new pricing for the BT distillate? At the time that they picked off the old SW stock, aged bourbon wasn't in great demand so prices should have been relatively low. Now that they have built their brand, I would guess that the cost of the BT distillate is much higher, hence the retail increase to maintain their margins.

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

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My guess is that production has remained steady, but the demand by restaurants (and perhaps even an emphasis by the Van Winkles) has made a hard product almost extinct in the wild. Happens in the wine business all the time and is highly successful, if you can pull it off. See: Baby Saz. Good on them and keep your hands off my 4R.

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I wonder if the expanded marketing and increase in retail pricing is just a factor of the difference between the cost of the SW barrels that they sourced and bottled for years and new pricing for the BT distillate? At the time that they picked off the old SW stock, aged bourbon wasn't in great demand so prices should have been relatively low. Now that they have built their brand, I would guess that the cost of the BT distillate is much higher, hence the retail increase to maintain their margins.

Just thinking out loud, I guess.

This is quite a valid point brought forth and an angle that I really hadn't considered,but in the big picture of marketing strategy the pricing itself fits well within the bracket between the CEHT line and BTAC so,I guess it really kind of makes sense.

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OMG PVW WTF!?

A 25% price increase is steep. This is especially true since since there was already a large increase this year which is compounded.

I'm really hoping this to have been just rumor or gross exaggeration by the stores who told me this. If this trend continues, a day will come sooner rather than later when we will see the shelves remain stocked & full well beyond the annual release dates.

Edited by Old Lamplighter
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This is quite a valid point brought forth and an angle that I really hadn't considered,but in the big picture of marketing strategy the pricing itself fits well within the bracket between the CEHT line and BTAC so,I guess it really kind of makes sense.

While I fully support the capitalist free market system of supply & demand....still, I find myself wondering from time to time how much Pappy as well as many other wonderful Kentucky products are sent offshore for higher profit margins while we search, scratch & claw to find the few bottles that are made available to the homeland....just a passing thought.

Edited by Old Lamplighter
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While I fully support the capitalist free market system of supply & demand....still, I find myself wondering from time to time how much Pappy as well as many other wonderful Kentucky products are sent offshore for higher profit margins while we search, scratch & claw to find the few bottles that are made available to the homeland....just a passing thought.

On that point, no so much on the pappys, but there are numerous sites selling BTAC from around $140 a bottle in europe. some of the sites have stock of stagg and weller from 2009 and 2010. almost all have handy and saz18 as well. seems offshore is definitely getting more bottles then are selling while as you said, people are lining up here trying to get one bottle of any BTAC available just to have one from that year.

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I don't see anything wrong with Pappy being "unaffordable" in the future. It's time they priced it to the point that it stays in stock on shelves for more than a day. If pushing PVW15 to $500+ MSRP is what it takes to bring sanity upon society, then I am all for it. The eBay and now Craigslist issue is indicative of a problem that isn't going away (black market = market inefficiency) and there's no point for the brand to pretend that's it's accessible to the average joe anymore.

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My guess is that production has remained steady, but the demand by restaurants (and perhaps even an emphasis by the Van Winkles) has made a hard product almost extinct in the wild. Happens in the wine business all the time and is highly successful, if you can pull it off. See: Baby Saz. Good on them and keep your hands off my 4R.

I believe it is more than a guess on your part Will and that is another big part of what's happening. Nick Kocanas of Chicago's Aviary proves you correct when he says "The Pappy 20 is always available as a single pour.... we sell a lot but won't run out (we've put effort into stocking up so it doesn't become a seasonal product with us)." Aviary has only been open for a year and a half (April 23, 2011) with people lined up for 6 hours before its doors opened on that day and it's frenzy continues.

And in the spirit of the season and as a public service to all Van Winkle crazies I'll even do you all a favor of linking to this Pappy at restaurants/bars locator compliments of the Eater site http://eater.com/archives/2012/11/29/the-eater-pappy-locator-where-to-find-pappy-right-now-1.php

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In the wine and spirits game of sales, on-premise always gets preference. ALWAYS.

The are plenty of sought-after wine labels that will tell their wholesalers what percentage must go to on-premise(restaurants). Sometimes it's 75-80%. In a couple of cases, such as Navarro out of Anderson Valley, it's 100% on-premise. And prior to Brown-Forman purchasing Sonoma-Cutrer and ramping production to create an off-premise(retail) sku, that winery was 100% on-premise as well, or at least it was supposed to be.(Small amounts will always slip thru the cracks.) Any wholesaler who would violate Sonoma-Cutrer's rule would either be punished by smaller allocation, or fired as a partner.

The producers' thinking behind all this, is that if you are a highly sought-after brand with limited availability, on-premise sales will touch more consumers, rather than the hoarding aspect, as well as the price deflation, of off-premise.

By touching more consumers, you are doing a better job of "brand-building." At least that's the theory.

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By the way everyone, the number of "Empty" bottles and bags on a certain website is starting to get ridiculous.

Edited by Rockefeller
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By the way everyone, the number of "Empty" bottles and bags on a certain website is starting to get ridiculous.

Putting empty is in quotes doesn't mean you will get a full bottle

and I'd guess buyers would have no recourse with ebay despite

any "Ask seller a question" replies they might have received prior

to the auction end.

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