what if a microdistiller made something that was really good.

[tmckenzie]

I expect to see a lot of micro in the next 5 years fold. They have too, too much bad stuff out there. I have tried a few good ones, Dads Hat rye, is outstanding stuff, had a bottle last week. Balcones does a good job. But if a micro should make whiskey that was close in flavor to what S-W made, would it sell to the general public? Or just enthusiasts like ourselves.

[squire]

It would sell Tom, good whisky always does, the problem is keeping the business going for 6-8 years while waiting for the whisky to mature. Of course you know about that, I just make the comment for our general interest readers.

I think the market is ready for quality distilled beverages whether they be whisky, rum, brandy, aquavit, vodka, but forget the fancy bottles and made up hype about secret family recipes and that sort of thing. In today's age of instant communications a quality product will become known and if it sells at a decent price will find a buyer, make it and they will come.

[omgmarclol]

agreed. most of us here who've been drinking bourbon, or any spirit for that matter, have moved beyond marketing and hype. we can look at history and track record, but if you put out a good product, it will be bought regardless if the brand is established or up and coming.

[VAGentleman]

Being a micro, if it was really good I think the enthusiasts would snap it up and then the hype would kick in and it would be very hard for the general public to get any. Micro by definition having a very small output.

It could also depend on the region its in as well, cases in point being Garrison Brothers and Wyoming Whiskey. They are basically selling out everything they have right now. If they ever put out some amazing stuff it'd be almost impossible to get any.

[sailor22]

I don't think the micro would have trouble selling a S-W replica and at the moment at least there are probably enough enthusiasts to soak up all the production of a micro distiller who produced that unicorn. Providing distribution could be handled on the net and was national in scope.

But wasn't the best of the SW juice was at least 8yrs old and typically in the 15yr range? Hard to reproduce that in just a few years even given identical white dog.

Tom, do you think the majority of the micros are attempting to make what the big producers are making only better? Wouldn't the more productive route be to make something different but delicious in it's own right? Otherwise it's just a "me too" product and faces some serious headwind in the market. I have the feeling that the "similar but different" tack is what High West, Corsair and Balcones is doing.

BTW - I had a chance to taste some of your juice last week and thought it was delicious. Thanks.

Edited March 19, 2013 by sailor22

[Yeti]

I think High West will do very well switching over to their own aged distillate. They've got a pretty big footprint for such a small operation. And Balcones is definitely doing something different, in a very good way. They've got hype and a great start with their young whiskey. As it gets into to the 6-10 year old window I think the tastemakers are going to push it to the moon. I personally can't wait for a 12 year old Balcones Texas Single Malt.

In my back yard, Smooth Ambler gets a lot of praise for their Yearling whiskey, and while I really want them to do well and support them through the various Old Scout labels, I've not been impressed with the Yearling. At less than 2 years old it's impossible to tell exactly how it will taste at 6, but I'm not on board yet. Their goal for the "official" Smooth Ambler Bourbon is something in the wheelhouse of MM or WSR, a higher proof wheater around 6 years old. So, we'll see how it develops in the next few years.

[squire]

One of the reasons Pappy choose to continue with wheat recipe Bourbons is they reached maturity faster and immediately following Prohibition the majors were playing catchup. The market helped shape the product and Stitzel-Weller eventually became known for 100 proof BIBs in the 8-12 year range.

Could a micro replicate that profile? Certainly, but not with a 2 year old expression, or a 3-4-5 year for that matter. What a micro can do is make something with a flavor profile outside of what the majors provide. The grocery store will always sell white bread but the small baker makes the french style loaf I prefer.

[michaelturtle1]

I have had the pleasure to taste a wheated bourbon that tmckenzie made, barreled and aged the proper way. It has a profile unlike any bourbon on the market today, I have to break in to the dusty closet to get a profile close to what he made. Given the popularity of dusties, I think it will be a seller in the enthusiast market, which generally creates a buzz about a product which in turn causes the casual drinker to take notice. I usually stray away from the micros as you never know what you will get, unless it is "found" product like the Smooth Ambler and HW stuff. I am looking forward to trying HW juice once it is properly aged as they seem like a place that will do it "right".

[omgmarclol]

that's one of the reasons i'm enjoying what corsair, balcones, and big bottom are putting out. they're putting out such interesting interpretations.

[squire]

I'm interested in something with 'butterscotch' notes found in some of the old National Distillers products (Old Taylor) that I believe McKenzie is also working on.

[wadewood]

http://www.frdistilling.com/ - These guys in Ft. Worth, TX might come close to a SW profile. If you believe their website info on their Straight Bourbon, they are using roller mills, it's a wheated recipe, and they are aging in standard 53 gallon barrels. They started filling barrels March 2012, so who knows when it will truly be ready. I'd like to see it age 6 years, but figure they will sell it much sooner to make some money.

While we want to see a micro produce a 8-12 year old product, I doubt we see much of this. The craft moment started in earnest what maybe 5-6 years ago? How many barrels do you think they held onto this long? Maybe a few for a special product, but if so, the release will be mostly for marketing purposes.

[sailor22]

I'm interested in something with 'butterscotch' notes found in some of the old National Distillers products (Old Taylor) that I believe McKenzie is also working on.

[squire]

Wonder if they would take an advance purchase reservation on a chocolate barrel.

[sailor22]

That's a lovely thought Squire.

[Josh]

If I were a rich man, I would wait for a micros to fail and buy up all their stock and just let it age in my garage for 10+ years. If I didn't like it by then, I'd bottle and sell it at inflated prices in fancy bottles.

[Kalessin]

Well, one of my local microdistillers does make something awesome: Berkshire Mountain Distillery's "Greylock Gin" and the various one-off "Ethereal Gin" recipes.

Really good gin. I've bought a number of bottles, and will continue to do so.

However, I haven't yet bought their bourbon, as I've been drinking many others in the $40 price range. I'm just not feeling compelled yet; I wish they had a 375 or smaller bottle so I could sample it and see if I like it, but like most other micros, they seem to be only bottling in 750s.

[squire]

I think the micros could make a smashing gin.

[Josh]

I think the micros could make a smashing gin.

Many of them do make very good gins. New Holland, Corsair, Death's Door and Rogue all make very good gins.

[ThirstyinOhio]

Many of them do make very good gins. New Holland, Corsair, Death's Door and Rogue all make very good gins.

I would like to add Watershed to the list of those with excellent gin. Their 4 peel and barrel aged are very good products, their bourbon can still use some work but they are showing the most promise out of the Ohio distilleries so far.

[Lazer]

If I were a rich man, I would wait for a micros to fail and buy up all their stock and just let it age in my garage for 10+ years. If I didn't like it by then, I'd bottle and sell it at inflated prices in fancy bottles.

You may not be rich, but you're very smart. :cool:

To answer the O.P.: if you want to sell whiskey, you have to be a good salesman. That's not the same as being able to make good whiskey. Just take a look back three or four years. Lots of great whiskey on the shelf and nobody buying it but us... some of us.

[sailor22]

If I were a rich man, I would wait for a micros to fail and buy up all their stock and just let it age in my garage for 10+ years. If I didn't like it by then, I'd bottle and sell it at inflated prices in fancy bottles.

Something like that is what I anticipate will happen with a lot of them. Since many are producing something different than they typical Bourbon I can see some majors or middle size distilleries buying stocks that might come into play in vattings or mingelings with more mainstream products.

Maybe well be seeing "Silent Micro's Tastings" someday.

[OscarV]

It'll never hapen (answer to thread's question) because the micro distillers want money now and will never age anything.

[squire]

I wouldn't say they will never age anything Oscar but I can see why most won't.

[Yeti]

I think the micros could make a smashing gin.

I'm not a gin drinker, but I'll make another recommendation for Smooth Ambler. Their Barrel Aged Gin was very good to my uneducated gin palate. Aged 3 months in half new white oak and half used Old Scout barrels, bottled at 99 proof.

[omgmarclol]

Well, one of my local microdistillers does make something awesome: Berkshire Mountain Distillery's "Greylock Gin" and the various one-off "Ethereal Gin" recipes.

Really good gin. I've bought a number of bottles, and will continue to do so.

i've enjoyed all of the ethereal batches except batch 5 (purple label) which tasted like gin and perfume, but berkshire mountain's gin line is excellent.