michaelturtle1 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 Today I performed the determinate step on all of the leaches I performed yesterday. The ASTM method for leaching ceramics requires the Acetic acid to sit in the vessels for 24hrs. Flame AA was used to measure the lead content vs the furnace I used to measure the amount of lead in the bourbon itself. The resolution on the Flame AA is alot less but the FDA guidelines for lead leaching are alot higher than drinking water, plus the samples tend to be "dirtier" which leads to issues with the furnace. The results were very surprising to me as only the 1973 Cabin Still had any measurable amount of lead which was 129.0 ppb all the rest ranged from 0-87.0 ppb.. Since these numbers are so low they are merely estimates as the machine is not calibrated to see that low. So this really throws a monkey in the wrench of finding trends in leaching. From these numbers it would appear that given enough time the amount of lead in the decanters and the amount of lead in the bourbon reach an equilibrium? The limits for leachable lead in ceramics will be posted from my phone as a picture, the limit that is most closely related to the decanters is for a pitcher which is 500 ppb. My next step is to clearly analyze bourbons from glass made during this time period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 The Old Fitz BiB is dark due to my inability to extract the cork from the bottle The flame in action The limits for leachable lead in ceramics. Mg/L is equal to ppm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 14, 2013 Author Share Posted August 14, 2013 And finally the data chart I am generating, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Starting round 2 of measuring lead in the bourbon. I have a 1960s Old Fitz mini to use as a baseline to see if any lead came from the process of making whiskey during that time period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighInTheMtns Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Is all the whiskey you're testing this round Old Fitz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 Some SW, 3 WT 8yr and a sample of HH BIB from the 80's snuck in under the wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devillighter Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Really looking forward to the results once again. Thanks for all the hard work and the bourbon sacrificed for the testing Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 22, 2013 Author Share Posted August 22, 2013 A little bit of research has seemingly solved the mystery of the material that is on the bottom of the centrifuge tubes after the nitric acid digest. It appears that woody fibers are precipitated out of solution when exposed to nitric acid. I will filter a few of the samples and look at the solid under a stereoscope or microscope a bit later and see if there are any clearly identifiable fibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ISU_grad Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 Truly impressive bit of research here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Here is the drum roll moment..the first result of 69.3 ppb is from an Old Fitz mini from the 1960s the second result of 14.9 ppb is a 1982 Heaven Hill BIB from a bottle... If this trend continues the whole theory of lead leaching from decanters can be thrown out the window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devillighter Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Here is the drum roll moment..the first result of 69.3 ppb is from an Old Fitz mini from the 1960s the second result of 14.9 ppb is a 1982 Heaven Hill BIB from a bottle... If this trend continues the whole theory of lead leaching from decanters can be thrown out the windowWow, that is an amazing result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Good gracious, where will this lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Spoke a bit too soon 1973 Cabin Still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyOldKyDram Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Jaysus! Holy toxicity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wryguy Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Man this thread is exciting. Did I drink the 73 or 72 Cabin Still decanter when I came over? It was delicious BTW. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChainWhip Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Egads Michael! Loving this thread btw - utterly fascinating for my inner propellerhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Man this thread is exciting. Did I drink the 73 or 72 Cabin Still decanter when I came over? It was delicious BTW. Thanks again.You had the '72 which is tested in the range of the rest, the only aberration is the '73 Cabin Still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Reserve Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The "safe" lead level in water is 15 ppb. We are advised to drink at least 64 oz water/day. 15 ppb lead x 64 oz/day = 960 ppb lead oz/day. 1 oz/day x 931 ppb lead = 931 ppb lead oz/day.Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutton Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The "safe" lead level in water is 15 ppb. We are advised to drink at least 64 oz water/day. 15 ppb lead x 64 oz/day = 960 ppb lead oz/day. 1 oz/day x 931 ppb lead = 931 ppb lead oz/day.WillIs this right, Will? 64 oz is 1.89L - so upper limit of 15ug/L (15ppb) would be 28.4 ug per day? ... confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8tmp4bYhiFPVUhJTk1uWmppcmM/edit?usp=sharingHopefully this works as I have never used google documents before... Above is a link to the spreadsheet I am continuing to generate, still trying to figure out why the one Cabin Still was so high. There was obviously more lead in the decanter itself but it is from the same manufacturer as the rest of the SW decanters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Reserve Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Is this right, Will? 64 oz is 1.89L - so upper limit of 15ug/L (15ppb) would be 28.4 ug per day? ... confusing.Actually the 8 x 8 recommendation is low.http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/water/NU00283Who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidfive Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Well, I am glad to see that my 80' WT 8 year is close to ok. the 82' on the other hand is a little bit higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Reserve Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 The "safe" lead level in water is 15 ppb. We are advised to drink at least 64 oz water/day. 15 ppb lead x 64 oz/day = 960 ppb lead oz/day. 1 oz/day x 931 ppb lead = 931 ppb lead oz/day.WillI looked up the EPA standards. The goal for lead is ppb, the action limit is 15 ppb. Action limit is if you're under, you don' have to take any corrective measures.Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauiSon Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Well, I am glad to see that my 80' WT 8 year is close to ok. the 82' on the other hand is a little bit higherIf those were your samples, well and good, now you know. However, these results are only data points that reveal what is possible for lead concentrations, not what is probable or even likely for other samples. So, anyone else with a decanter of '80 or '82 WT 8yo should not extrapolate that their bottles would have similar results.SR, your math is suspect. PPB is a ratio and cannot be multiplied in that manner. If you're drinking water with 15 ppb lead it always remains 15 ppb lead, no matter how much you consume. Edited August 23, 2013 by MauiSon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelturtle1 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 If those were your samples, well and good, now you know. However, these results are only data points that reveal what is possible for lead concentrations, not what is probable or even likely for other samples. So, anyone else with a decanter of '80 or '82 WT 8yo should not extrapolate that their bottles would have a similar results.Those were his samples he kindly donated to the project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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