VOB BiB dropped age statement

[T Comp]

And I should add of course it would be interesting to have any thoughts on comparing the two (the former and new VOB BIB) side by side.

Gary

And one of the harsher aspects of this is that I thought the Sazerac bottlings were improved from the last of the Constellation bottlings...a bit more refined on the wood influence and less banana esters. Sazerac is still working with Constellation distilled barrels of course but I think they were doing a better job of batching.

And the most probable reason for the age drop is the increased distribution of the brand by Sazerac but being limited still by barrels of what Constellation distilled. In spite of our outrage they have planned this out carefully as a business decision.

[Gillman]

Good points as always Thad. I recall when we learned the brand would be distributed beyond its traditional hinterland of Kentucky and a few other places, so I guess this is one consequence of that, partly too driven by the pressure on existing stocks due to the bourbon boom.

Gary

[TunnelTiger]

In spite of our outrage they have planned this out carefully as a business decision.

[T Comp]

Maybe so but not all carefully planned business decisions work out as planned. Edsel, New Coke, the list can go on and on. The problem lies in being able to detect and react quickly if the decision was correct. Coke reacted quickly and rebounded even better.

I don't picture Saz being to react as fast because the number of brands offered, the distribution set up, etc.

It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

I just don't think it is going to be that interesting. It is still a bottom shelf brand. 90% or even 99% of the buyers, many on the lower end of the wage scale compared to SB members, will be happy the brand continues and not have to find a substitute. Here is what Chuck Cowdery had to say in a post back in 2009 when Constellation had turned Ten High into a blend, just prior to the Sazerac purchase:

"Even though Sazerac has done a good job in the cats and dogs business, I thought they were moving away from that. If they really are, then I expect they will do some serious pruning, either by selling brands to someone like Luxco, or just discontinuing them.

Or maybe not. The thing about cats and dogs is you don't spend any money marketing them, so all you need is enough business to justify the incremental cost of making and distributing them. As long as the distributor keeps ordering it, why stop making it?

The problem is that except at the very bottom of the scale, essentially generics, you can't really substitute. If you discontinue, say, Ten High and say, "here, take Ancient Age instead," some people (both trade customers and consumers) will, but plenty of others will switch to Old Crow or JTS Brown, something else on the bottom shelf that's not made by BT."

[TunnelTiger]

I suppose we could start a new thread predicting what the next NAS brand will changed since they obviously have a plan.

I guessing 4eye's nomination of Weller12 to Weller 12Star will be it.

[MyOldKyDram]

I'll say Eagle Rare. Matter of fact I think the only thing that will retain the age statement is the BTAC.

[smknjoe]

That's sort of spooky, Sean..."I see dead people."

[Paddy]

That's sort of spooky, Sean..."I see dead people."

"They're everywhere."

[squire]

Are they looking for a place to haunt? I've got a location in mind.

[sutton]

I would think distillers would love the cats and dogs - kind of like white wine - low production costs, can make an ocean of it, most of it turned out in a year. Great cash flow that can stabilize the working capital while you age your star products. Don't want to kill the golden goose and send your cash flow over to another distillers' bottom shelf brand.

[shoshani]

So. I went and got my case. Here's what's cookin'.

The barcode label on the carton very clearly says 6 years.

The neckband of the bottle doesn't, it just has the numeral 6.

Other labeling on the carton indicates a bottling date of July 24, 2013.

Note: vBBS rotated all these images for me. I have no idea how to get them to display correctly.

[tanstaafl2]

So did you buy it given the false information on the box and probably deliberately deceptive labeling of the bottle? I would not and would hope the store would work with me. At the very least get credit towards something better!

Although truth be told at this point they are probably little different from the age stated ones. The real deterioration in quality will likely take place over time.

[TunnelTiger]

True statement but how long before we can actually notice the change? Six months, a year?

[tanstaafl2]

True statement but how long before we can actually notice the change? Six months, a year?

Seems like within a year or so people were noting OWA had gotten worse for the loss of its age statement. I can't really say as I don't drink OWA that often and mostly in the SB blend when I do.

[Gillman]

But why do you both consider the taste change now is minimal? Presumably some whiskey in the new bottles is under 6 years, do you think it is because they would currently be using just a little of that and as time goes by would use more?

It will be very interesting to read the first A/B...

Gary

[shoshani]

But why do you both consider the taste change now is minimal? Presumably some whiskey in the new bottles is under 6 years, do you think it is because they would currently be using just a little of that and as time goes by would use more?

It will be very interesting to read the first A/B...

Gary

Which I can't even do, sadly, because I was out of VOB to begin with.

This was the closest of two locations out of a 30 location chain that even had any VOB BIB. The distributor is backordered. Sazerac may be doing this to try to adjust for a shortage, who knows.

[jburlowski]

And the most probable reason for the age drop is the increased distribution of the brand by Sazerac but being limited still by barrels of what Constellation distilled. In spite of our outrage they have planned this out carefully as a business decision.

Could be, Thad. But my guess (FWIW) is this: one of Sazerac's strategic decisions is to increase it's private label business (with large grocery chains, etc.). You do this with low-end, low age stock. Best way to do this, in the short run, is to "steal" some stock from brands such as VOB. Being a low-to-mid-shelfer, you figure most VOB drinkers won't notice the change.

[jburlowski]

I suppose we could start a new thread predicting what the next NAS brand will changed since they obviously have a plan.

...

I'll say Eagle Rare. Matter of fact I think the only thing that will retain the age statement is the BTAC.

I would doubt that they would mess with ER10. It's one of their heavily-promoted (for a company like Sazerac that does relatively little advertising) premium brands..... touting all those medals and awards it has won, etc. You mess with the lower end, lower profit brands (e.g., OWA, VOB) instead.

[393foureyedfox]

But why do you both consider the taste change now is minimal? Presumably some whiskey in the new bottles is under 6 years, do you think it is because they would currently be using just a little of that and as time goes by would use more?

It will be very interesting to read the first A/B...

Gary

I imagine it will take time, at least a year, for people to notice a difference. drastically changing the taste profile overnight will lose you a lot of customers, even if they dont care about age statements. One quote I remember from Freddie at BT was, "if you can't maintain a taste profile that is consistent over the years, you will lose those customers who buy your product". If you change it a tiny bit here, a tiny bit there, and do that incrementally over a few years, few will notice it......unless you do side by sides with new and old stuff like a lot of bourbon lovers on here do.

[squire]

Losing the age statement may be the first of those incremental steps.

[393foureyedfox]

Losing the age statement may be the first of those incremental steps.

going NAS HAS to be the first step.........well I guess they could've changed it to just being a 6 year 100 proofer and dropped the BIB part, that might've freed up some options on making it too

[squire]

More likely some changes have already been made and the age statement had to be dropped to put those changes in place.

[shoshani]

So did you buy it given the false information on the box and probably deliberately deceptive labeling of the bottle? I would not and would hope the store would work with me. At the very least get credit towards something better!

Nah, I went into this consciously, betting (I haven't cracked any open yet to see though) that at this point in the game, what they're bottling isn't radically different from what they were bottling earlier this year.

The store isn't going to do anything, and I wouldn't ask them to. Whatever changes in labeling or aging or whatever isn't anything they did. They receive the product as delivered by the distributor, who in turn receives it as delivered by whatever agency (wholesale jobber or distillery) is their source.

[shoshani]

going NAS HAS to be the first step.........well I guess they could've changed it to just being a 6 year 100 proofer and dropped the BIB part, that might've freed up some options on making it too

That would have had nicer potential, because if it had a 6 year age statement but wasn't bonded, they could mingle older whiskey into it when they had a need to get rid of some.

Some of us speculated that Old Forester was going to do that when they dropped the bonded label. Although it's NAS, it's really the highest thing BF has coming out of Shively. Woodford has a lighter profile even though it's the same mashbill; it wouldn't make sense to siphon off older Forester (which gets really heavy) for blending with the Woodford distillate. And Early Times is a completely different mashbill, so they wouldn't be using Forester to patch up holes there.

[wadewood]

Could be, Thad. But my guess (FWIW) is this: one of Sazerac's strategic decisions is to increase it's private label business (with large grocery chains, etc.). You do this with low-end, low age stock. Best way to do this, in the short run, is to "steal" some stock from brands such as VOB. Being a low-to-mid-shelfer, you figure most VOB drinkers won't notice the change.

In addition to grocery store brands, I think they are selling to NDP's. There are so many new NDP's selling whiskey and often at premium type prices for young NAS bourbon, that Sazerac probably realized they could sale in bulk to these guys for more profit than by selling in 6 year old Very Old Barton.