VOB BiB dropped age statement

[squire]

Do they give out free samples on the tours is probably first on the list.

[wadewood]

I did not post his name, but now that Paul has my reply that I posted was also from Rob Sharp. I emailed Rob back with my response -

Rob,

Thanks for the reply back. To me age and desired taste go hand in hand. The age statement was removed on Old Weller Antique 3-4 years ago. At 1st the taste profile remained the same, but now the OWA is significantly different.

But I do understand that it was a business decision. I'm more disappointed in leaving the big number 6 in place on the neck where it used to say 6 years old. It's very deceptive.

[393foureyedfox]

The industry is adapting to a boom that they were ill prepared for across the board. It really is as simple as that.

Though I wasnt a Barton fan to begin with, I think the outrage over this is more due to the deceptive labeling than the loss of age statement. I can understand dropping age statements on $13 whiskey, and find it acceptable in the circumstances of todays whiskey market. The obviously deceptive labeling practice though (pee on my shoes and tell me its rain, as Squire said) is another statement.

Had the maker simply stopped putting any neck labels on...period...wouldve caused some grumbling, but not the outrage.

I apologize for my 'uncouth internet behavior' but being lied to with tongue in cheek tends to bring that on, internet or not. Just be honest about it and you may keep most of your customers.

[Gillman]

I'd still like to see a comparative taste test by an SB-er stating that the newbie matches up to the one replaced. The brand was both 8 and 6 years old in the past and possibly (at least the BiB) less than 6 years old at one point or in some markets, but anyway only a taste test will tell. The company seems confident the profile is the same but I'd like to see what SB-ers think of the new product, palate-wise.

Gary

Edited December 29, 2013 by Gillman

[TunnelTiger]

An excellent suggestion Gary but I would think a taste test six months from now would be more indicative of the change.

[Gillman]

Yes, but both will be instructive. I happen to agree with those who feel Weller 107 is not what it was. Ditto for Evan Williams Black Label. Anyway, we'll see.

Gary

[sutton]

Wade's comment above struck a cord with me - the move to NAS in the lower to mid-shelf is a mark of the industry responding to exploding demand and holding onto their shelf space. You lose that space, and it may be hard to get back.

Further, it also seems clear to those on the board here who have been drinking bourbon much longer than I have that the ability to go NAS and maintain the age-stated taste is difficult if not impossible over the medium to longer term, both because of the increased demand and the trend of taking whatever available older whiskies that might balance a NAS bottling and put into age-stated higher priced brands. As the shelves are cleared of the age-stated version and bunkered, it will remain to be seen if these NAS bottlings will hold onto those who are now finding an interest in bourbon and move them up the shelf, or whether they'll just shrug and say, it's just OK and go back to whatever they were drinking beforehand.

If five- or 10-years hence the demand stabilizes or cools, I think you'll see "improved" NAS bottlings and perhaps some age statements return. But it is clear that most of the move to NAS leaves something to be desired - look at all of the blends experimented with on this board which I think is at least an attempt at recreating what was (SB Blend a notable example).

[ethangsmith]

I still want to know why Barton isn't distilling more often if they are short on whiskey and have to remove age statements. Chuck made a post back in May of 2011 about the rumors of Barton shutting down. Though they weren't, they certainly weren't distilling anywhere near maximum capacity either. So I would certainly hope Barton has at least ramped up production now!

From Chuck Cowdery's blog May, 2011: http://chuckcowdery.blogspot.com/2011/05/truth-about-distilling-at-barton.html

Edited December 29, 2013 by ethangsmith

[mbroo5880i]

Is BT distilling any of the Barton products?

[mbroo5880i]

I know that Sazerac is getting some heat in the forum about leaving "6" on the neck label. I know there are all kinds of back stories about various "prominently" displayed numbers on bottles but I am not sure the average consumer really knows what some of these numbers mean and just assume that they reflect the age. I know I did before I joined this forum.

For example, I thought the difference between Dickel 8 and Dickel 12 is four years age. You can't tell me, even if the intent isn't there, the benefit of misunderstanding the meaning of the number doesn't lead to improved sales.

I don't recall on which page of this thread but I seem to recall Chuck indicating that this is a common practice. Doesn't make it right, but he was just stating the facts.

For example, I found an old thread on Dickel 12.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?2972-George-Dickel-No-12-age

I know this thread seems circuitous but it is interesting to try to "guess" where all of this leads, not just to VOB but to the industry as well.

[T Comp]

For example, I found an old thread on Dickel 12.

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?2972-George-Dickel-No-12-age

I'll keep the thread going to compliment you mbroo for digging into the great resource of past postings that exist here. Just like that gold or oil underneath the surface :cool:.

[squire]

Yes, there are a number of good threads around here that deserve revisiting.

Edited December 29, 2013 by squire

[mark fleetwood]

Funny thing is that Saz did the right thing, truth-in-labeling-wise, when it removed "7 years" from OWA and WSR neck labels. The decision to subtly change to just "6" for VOB's is at least disappointing, at worst infuriating and insulting.

But look on the bright side, at least they didn't "accidentally" apply the "6" neck label upside down!

[jeffrey r]

Funny thing is that Saz did the right thing, truth-in-labeling-wise, when it removed "7 years" from OWA and WSR neck labels.

With all due respect, I don't think it was doing the "right thing" removing "7 years", but rather mandated by law. If there is juice less than 7 years old in the bottle, then it simply can't be labelled "7 years" anymore.

That's the significant point. Calling VOB 6 years old meant it was at least 6 year old juice in the bottle. When I just bought a few remaining handles of Old Charter 10 Year, the age statement was a guarantee that I was buying 1.75 L of at least 10 year old Kentucky bourbon for $30. Without the age statement, it could be anything in my bottles older than a few years old.

[mark fleetwood]

With all due respect, I don't think it was doing the "right thing" removing "7 years", but rather mandated by law. If there is juice less than 7 years old in the bottle, then it simply can't be labelled "7 years" anymore.

That's the significant point. Calling VOB 6 years old meant it was at least 6 year old juice in the bottle. When I just bought a few remaining handles of Old Charter 10 Year, the age statement was a guarantee that I was buying 1.75 L of at least 10 year old Kentucky bourbon for $30. Without the age statement, it could be anything in my bottles older than a few years old.

The point I was trying to make, apparently not lucidly, was that given the opportunity Saz did not replace "7 years" with a lone "7" for OWA and WSR. All the more disappointing that they then chose to take that path with VOB.

[ryanc]

Maybe global warming is shortening the aging process:slappin:

[squire]

At least they're not using wood chips and pressure cookers.

[MyOldKyDram]

That's why they removed it. Age doesn't matter any longer as Barton is merging w Cleveland Whiskey. CleVOB.

[ChainWhip]

Maybe global warming is shortening the aging process:slappin:

I remember reading somewhere that they were losing more per annum to evaporation due to rising temperatures - while not a great factor by itself, I'm sure when combined with increased demand it only serves to exacerbate the problem.

[mbroo5880i]

I remember reading somewhere that they were losing more per annum to evaporation due to rising temperatures - while not a great factor by itself, I'm sure when combined with increased demand it only serves to exacerbate the problem.

I wonder why this isn't at the top of the list of the most catastrophic impacts of global warming.

[Josh]

I'm starting to think the only (or at least biggest reason) Sazerac bought Barton was to get their hands on Barton's warehouses.

[TheNovaMan]

For example, I thought the difference between Dickel 8 and Dickel 12 is four years age.

That's an easy thing to think. Just the other day at my favorite liquor store, I took down a small promotional sign from the Dickel 12 facing because it said "Dickel 12yr." They know me (otherwise I wouldn't have done that), and I kindly informed them it's not 12 years old, it's just "No. 12."

[squire]

I think Josh is correct, Sazerac wanted Barton's facilities and the Bourbon brands were just part of the deal. Barton is primarily a producer of Canadian whisky whose sales far dwarf the Bourbon numbers.

[smokinjoe]

Is Barton still the biggest selling bourbon in the Bourbon Motherland of Kentucky?

[393foureyedfox]

Is Barton still the biggest selling bourbon in the Bourbon Motherland of Kentucky?

was it ever?

of all the people I know, only one buys Barton.