Current Van Winkle Prices 2013/2014

[tanstaafl2]

I understand the desire to get in on the action. But it's short-sighted. In that case, the $75 markup is certainly going to cost them more than $75 in margins with my first boycott next month. I'm sure they don't need my business, but it's too bad - I liked the store. I even enjoyed the aggressive sarcasm.

I think this is most effective if you communicate that you aren't coming back to the owner or manager and why. Can be civil about it but if they don't know what impact their decision to gouge has had then it likely will not be as effective.

And of course then you can't go back or it is all for naught! That can be the hard part... :skep:

[The Black Tot]

I think this is most effective if you communicate that you aren't coming back to the owner or manager and why. Can be civil about it but if they don't know what impact their decision to gouge has had then it likely will not be as effective.

And of course then you can't go back or it is all for naught! That can be the hard part... :skep:

When I read this I tried to imagine how I would say this without coming off like one of those drama queen customers you see from time to time... the "I'll take my business elsewhere!" gang.

I don't know if that helps or not. The person who marks up a Pappy or anything else knows exactly what they were doing to me, the customer. At that point the manager has made it quite clear that he wants as his customer base the "someone who will be desperate/dumb enough to pay it". And if that's the case, expressing my dissatisfaction is likely to be irrelevant to him, since he's made the decision that he is focused on waiting for those guys now.

I have a hard time imagining the Toddy's manager saying "You didn't like our 100% of MSRP price inflation? We didn't realize you wouldn't. I'm closing the store today so we can restore all our pricing to MSRP. Thanks for telling us!"

The retailers can't have it both ways - ie gouge on the limiteds for the tourists but be fair on the regular issues for the locals. Because us folks who buy a lot of limiteds also buy a lot of regular issues as gifts, for parties, and especially for our daily drinkers. And we like to buy them from the sellers we really appreciate.

There is no way to appreciate a seller who gouges. There is no way to interpret it as anything other than "anti-customer", and them's us. You can compartmentalize and say "yeah, he's only gouging on silly product X which I have no interest in" but sooner or later it will be something you ARE interested in.

The more I learn about liquor buying, the more I have to cut stores off in order to favor stores who practice MSRP and friendly, personal service. But also, the more I am appreciating and enjoying those latter purchasing experiences.

On the not going back, I may have a lot of problems, but not sticking to my guns is not one of them.

tbt

[tanstaafl2]

I suppose it depends on your relationship with the store. I have had a conversation with a couple of stores like this, one I know and one I didn't. The one I didn't I just said it was disappointing to see such prices and that I didn't feel a need to support such a policy in as civil a manner as possible (drama would likely get you nowhere!), didn't buy anything and left. Haven't been back but that was easy as it was a place I didn't regularly go to. The other I have been going to more regularly so they knew me a little bit and I know some of the staff and the manager (but not the owner). I am trying to encourage them to see the short sided folly of their practice (I think the staff and manager mostly agree) but it probably won't have much impact as I am only small part of their business despite regualrly spending a fairly considerable amount there. I haven't had made the decision not to return.

At least not yet!

It is whatever you are comfortable with.

When I read this I tried to imagine how I would say this without coming off like one of those drama queen customers you see from time to time... the "I'll take my business elsewhere!" gang.

I don't know if that helps or not. The person who marks up a Pappy or anything else knows exactly what they were doing to me, the customer. At that point the manager has made it quite clear that he wants as his customer base the "someone who will be desperate/dumb enough to pay it". And if that's the case, expressing my dissatisfaction is likely to be irrelevant to him, since he's made the decision that he is focused on waiting for those guys now.

I have a hard time imagining the Toddy's manager saying "You didn't like our 100% of MSRP price inflation? We didn't realize you wouldn't. I'm closing the store today so we can restore all our pricing to MSRP. Thanks for telling us!"

The retailers can't have it both ways - ie gouge on the limiteds for the tourists but be fair on the regular issues for the locals. Because us folks who buy a lot of limiteds also buy a lot of regular issues as gifts, for parties, and especially for our daily drinkers. And we like to buy them from the sellers we really appreciate.

There is no way to appreciate a seller who gouges. There is no way to interpret it as anything other than "anti-customer", and them's us. You can compartmentalize and say "yeah, he's only gouging on silly product X which I have no interest in" but sooner or later it will be something you ARE interested in.

The more I learn about liquor buying, the more I have to cut stores off in order to favor stores who practice MSRP and friendly, personal service. But also, the more I am appreciating and enjoying those latter purchasing experiences.

On the not going back, I may have a lot of problems, but not sticking to my guns is not one of them.

tbt

[squire]

I see the prices but after I leave the owner is still faced with rent, payroll, withholding, matching funds, insurance, taxes of course and the risks inherent in tying up money in stock that may not move. So it's detente. He holds the prices on stuff I regularly buy and I don't complain when he seeks additional profit from the occasional high end shopper.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

I wouldn't put so much thought into it.

Speaking with your dollars is the only way to get through. And remember one person does not make or break a store.

The stores in bardstown are in a tough situation. They have an insane number of tourists coming through twice per year. Many are looking for something limited or unusual. Lots of those won't balk at paying a premium (tourist tax).

[The Black Tot]

I see the prices but after I leave the owner is still faced with rent, payroll, withholding, matching funds, insurance, taxes of course and the risks inherent in tying up money in stock that may not move. So it's detente. He holds the prices on stuff I regularly buy and I don't complain when he seeks additional profit from the occasional high end shopper.

[The Black Tot]

I wouldn't put so much thought into it.

[Eric B]

Every retailer has expenses. What differentiates the great retailers is customer service, selection and product knowledge!

[P&MLiquorsEric]

Haha Eric, I know. And I truly wouldn't...if I wasn't sitting at a computer 16h/day on a very slow work week.

Both very true. Totally understand and agree.

I know what you mean, but if their tough situation is that "every limited product that I put on the shelf at MSRP sells immediately and my store is loved as a great place with fair prices", then that is the kind of tough situation that a lot of retailers would probably like to take on.

When I have overpaid for something, it sticks in my mind. Not so much as to kill the enjoyment of the product, but it will always be "the thing I overpaid for". And that gets associated with "that's the thing that store Y overcharged me for". The opposite is true as well "What a great product this is. And what a great purchase experience from store X". One gets remembered as a mildly embarrassing acquisition story, the other a wonderful one.

Most of those tourists pay premiums because they think there is no choice for them. They don't know any better. This again is short sighted because today's tourist may well become tomorrow's professional. Many of them will realize after the fact what was done to them, and it won't be a nice thought association with that store in the future.

I mean, there's a reason they refer to certain stores as "tourist traps". There's no way to put a nice spin on the word trap when, in this market, most of us on this forum are the game

It's great though that great sellers are out there. I can't wait to check out your store on a road trip!

tbt

[The Black Tot]

From what I have gathered from my reps who also have bardstown stores is that no one there is moving much volume. There are lots of stores there and they took a huge hit when we (etown) went wet. Plus the fact that all the distilleries sell "souvenir" bottles at their gift shops.

Come on over but a word of caution first, outside of some private barrels and some single oak project, we don't have anything limited available right now.

[nd2005]

The stores in bardstown are in a tough situation. They have an insane number of tourists coming through twice per year. Many are looking for something limited or unusual. Lots of those won't balk at paying a premium (tourist tax).

It's totally true. Coming down this summer for a bourbon tour/bachelor party. I've been trying to tell one of my buddies that his likelihood of finding Pappy on the trip is approximately the same as finding a Unicorn, but he remains stubbornly (naively?) convinced. I can't even convince him that they don't sell it at the distillery.

[squire]

Well, perhaps he will be able to find something to assuage his disappointment. If he has a Pappy size budget he can take back several somethings.

[The Black Tot]

You can't even tell him "the Weller 12 is almost the same thing", since Bardstown's W12 gets slammed nearly as hard!

tbt

[callmeox]

You can't even tell him "the Weller 12 is almost the same thing", since Bardstown's W12 gets slammed nearly as hard!

tbt

There's one W12 on the shelf here this weekend and it is priced as such.

[squire]

I think you're justifying here. The only reason he's not doing it to you is that, from what I have gathered, your foci aren't limited editions at present.

It would be more precise to say I no longer buy limited or special editions though I did for a lot of years, to the extent a couple of local merchants would set bottles aside for me when the shipments came in and call my office to come pick them up.

[mbroo5880i]

Unless I am out of town, I only shop two stores locally. I am very loyal. With a few exceptions over the past few years, I haven't bought from supermarkets or drug stores, even when the prices are cheaper. For example, I saw WT101 for $18.99 and MM for $22.99 today, both great prices on nice bourbons. However, I will support my local liquor stores at the cost of a few dollars more per bottle because I know these liquor stores and their employees well enough to know that they will go the extra mile to provide the overall selection and pricing I desire. They add value to my experience with and enjoyment of bourbon (and other alcoholic beverages). Neither store I visit regularly "gouges" on specialty products, but if they did, I don't believe it would affect my loyalty. Yes, I like occasional access to PVW, BTAC or whatever, but that isn't the basis of my relationship with the store. The basis is I like variety at fair prices. So, if PVW20 is priced at $250, I don't really care, as long as OGD BIB is $17 and EC12 is $25 (examples), and I can get a new offering every so often at a fair price.

[The Black Tot]

It would be more precise to say I no longer buy limited or special editions though I did for a lot of years, to the extent a couple of local merchants would set bottles aside for me when the shipments came in and call my office to come pick them up.

I did say "at present"

tbt

[smknjoe]

I regret coming off as a "limited hound" But we are in a thread about Pappy-chasing, and I brought up two of the recent limited sore thumbs so it's hard to get around that now

tbt

Actually, it's a thread about current Pappy prices.

[P&MLiquorsEric]

Actually, it's a thread about current Pappy prices.

How about a quick summary.

Pappy prices are all over the place. And people still pay them.

[Eric B]

How about a quick summary.

Pappy prices are all over the place. And people still pay them.

Exactly!!!! I'm amazed at what people will pay and do for Pappy.

[smknjoe]

...so, that makes it okay to over charge then.

I thought that it would be nice for people to know what the going rates are in their area so they know what to expect and so they know when they are getting screwed. It seems like mostly newbies are interested in Pappy and they are more likely to not know what actual market prices are and are therefore more likely to overpay. This is a place they can come and see what realistic prices are.

Edit: I also was hoping that this could be used as a reference of sorts since past Pappy prices were drastically lower than they are now.

Edited April 25, 2014 by smknjoe

[Eric B]

I think MSRP for Pappy is unrealistic; throw in lotteries, long lines, scarcity, waiting lists..... Why bother?

[HOF44]

In Virginia at ABC stores the price is $130. They rarely have any though.

[Eric B]

In Virginia at ABC stores the price is $130. They rarely have any though.

$130 for what bottle?

[HOF44]

Yes per bottle. The 20 year old. That's the only one I've seen. No 15 or lot b.