mbroo5880i Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Do we really believe that infighting amongst a trade group and former member (a significant industry player) is really going to negatively impact the bourbon boom? I don't know the answer. I am really just asking the question.It seems that both have been able to co-exist even in the face of recent acrimony. Just curious, has KDA proposed something that would impact Sazerac's business or has Sazerac been working behind the scenes rattling the sabres against the KDA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TunnelTiger Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Seen this played out in my own mfg industry. If the mfg is strong enough the trade group will lose in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I think the Bourbon Boom Special has already pulled out of the station and some folks are running alongside trying to jump on. As to industry infighting the words tempest and teapot come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 TTiger is correct, craft distillers like Alltech, Barrel House and Corsair may benefit from membership but if KDA were to shrivel up and die tomorrow Beam, Brown-Forman and Heaven Hill wouldn't even bother to lower their flag to half mast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 TTiger is correct, craft distillers like Alltech, Barrel House and Corsair may benefit from membership but if KDA were to shrivel up and die tomorrow Beam, Brown-Forman and Heaven Hill wouldn't even bother to lower their flag to half mast.I do agree, but a nice flower arrangement is always appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoldBully Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 TTiger is correct, craft distillers like Alltech, Barrel House and Corsair may benefit from membership but if KDA were to shrivel up and die tomorrow Beam, Brown-Forman and Heaven Hill wouldn't even bother to lower their flag to half mast.Sounds right--so maybe it's more like, Behind the Scenes Battle Bothers Boosters of Baby Bourbon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejmharris Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Chuck, I never really known you to pull punches. "They" know who they are when they read you blog. The only people that don't know is us. Sounds like KDA and someone is battling but I really have no idea who or about what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Somebody must get it because I'm getting some of the most vicious hate mail I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyOldKyDram Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Post it and shame them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HP12 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Eating chocolate covered peanuts and drinking good Bourbon as this intriguing story / thread evolve into a great who-done-it and who's-doing-it. I'm beginning to understand the who behind the what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theglobalguy Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Having read his blog posting again, I'm thinking something to do with upcoming Mint Julep Tours events....and being told to piss off? (Or telling someone to piss off....I'm not sure which way this is tilting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I will say this much. It's not about my Mint Julep tour, which is all just fine, and only tangentially about me or anything I'm doing. Since I'm essentially funded by you (the people who buy my books and subscribe to my newsletter) I'm largely independent. There isn't a whole lot 'they' can do to me. It's a lot more about the Kentucky Bourbon Affair and not even that directly but what it represents and portends. Is it really that hard to figure out who the bigfoot is?Bourbon has gotten so big, with no end in sight, that I would think there is more than enough for everyone, but some people have decided just the opposite, that this is too big to be allowed to make its own way. It has to be controlled and managed and kept in a box that only a privileged few get to open. I think trying to impose control is a good way to stop the momentum, but to them a smaller business entirely under their control is more desirable than a bigger business of which they only have a piece. Seems insane to me but that's how small timers think.I'm affected, though in a small way, because I'm interested in finding ways to get my piece of the action and I like to nurture other people who are doing the same thing, if they do it the right way (i.e., honestly, transparently). I'm being frozen out of some things presumably because I am independent, too independent for 'them.' Edited February 10, 2014 by cowdery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theglobalguy Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I can only comment what I have before, that the costs seem out of whack with what's available during the KBF or other normal tours. The golden ticket premise is a bit creepy ( basically buying your way to the top ). I know we have a Yeti on here, no guess on who Bigfoot is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 While the KDA is behind this scenario, the major distilleries are buying in. Four Roses looks to be very active in this "exclusive" event. I guess I would be curious as to who is making money on this event. Is this to generate funds for KDA or are the participating distilleries picking up their share? The event looks to have limited availability. It doesn't seem like the financials support the message that it sends. If money isn't the goal, what are they hoping to accomplish? If I were BT, I would look to have a "common man's" event to compete with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I expect everybody's making a profit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theglobalguy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I expect everybody's making a profit here.Fun Excel math....if all the tickets sell out (including the golden tix which already have), something like $370K in Revenue. That is one heck of a profit for a few days events.Assuming they do sell most of those tickets...can't see how they'd let events like the Bourbon Classic exist in their market. Other than BT, most the high dollar sponsors/participants of that one are KDA members. Not exactly a zero sum game, but not infinite consumer discretionary money to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Just looking at Four Roses, for example. I think they have three events @ approximately $500 combined. Assuming the events have limited space (e.g., 200 people), I would see their revenue at no more than $100,000. That sounds like a lot of $ for a few days but is the benefit of that amount worth the potential impact of creating a negative perspective to their target customers? Yes, they have produced some great high end products, but the majority of their customers already either don't have access to or cannot afford their higher end products. I would assume their primary customers are between 25 and 40 years old. Most folks that I know who are "average" whiskey drinkers still have a negative impression of Four Roses. Maybe they believe that the 25 to 40 year old drinker seeks "exclusivity." However, most bourbon drinkers I know in that age are "still" stuck on the common name brands...Makers, Beam, and a nonbourbon, JD. I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't understand the concept of trying to create a perception of "exclusivity." Especially when price hikes for the standard products are certain to occur in the near future. I can see this driving more people away from their product as only those who can afford the "exclusivity" will be able to participate.I believe a better marketing approach for the industry is to promote the wide availability of quality bourbons at a fair price.I am not making a proclamation but rather I am just curious as to the benefit of participating in this event outside of some short-term profits. Edited February 11, 2014 by mbroo5880i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 While the KDA is behind this scenario, the major distilleries are buying in. Four Roses looks to be very active in this "exclusive" event. I guess I would be curious as to who is making money on this event. Is this to generate funds for KDA or are the participating distilleries picking up their share? The event looks to have limited availability. It doesn't seem like the financials support the message that it sends. If money isn't the goal, what are they hoping to accomplish? If I were BT, I would look to have a "common man's" event to compete with it.BT is very active locally in advertising their own special dinners/tastings and such. I don't like that their product shelf space is often empty, but I do like their indifference to the crowded bus they seem to want no part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theglobalguy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't understand the concept of trying to create a perception of "exclusivity." Especially when price hikes for the standard products are certain to occur in the near future. I can see this driving more people away from their product as only those who can afford the "exclusivity" will be able to participate.I believe a better marketing approach for the industry is to promote the wide availability of quality bourbons at a fair price.If you're a distiller running low on aged stock....wider release to the low end market wouldn't be the goal. Now, you convince some new high rolling folks (folks who spent >$1K on a gold ticket as an example) that your product is worth it and you can launch brand extensions at higher price points, spike the price on existing releases, etc.To be clear, I don't like it. As both a KY home teamer and a fan of reasonable priced quality bourbon I'd love it to stay secret/cheap/available. But if I'm in Finance or Marketing at any of these major brands....I'm gonna ride this horse as fast as I can and nail some short term goals. Leaving money on the table doesn't float well with shareholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 My estimate is close to globalguy's, almost $400,000. It's not going to charity. Maybe the goal is to raise money for the combine so it can do more without raising dues. This is how the distilleries like it. There are only two 'group' events, at the beginning and end. Everything else is done by individual distilleries. Every event is ticketed and the average ticket price is $150. They have a lot of firepower. Evidentially, they figure they are the 'product,' so they should control access and message.I wonder how many of these high rollers will expect that, since this is the best of the best, they should be able to get some Pappy somewhere. Ha ha, joke's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Way too much math in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I have a good sense of who Bigfoot is. I just don't know why they want to shoot themselves in that Big Foot. They should be about promoting the industry not creating exclusivity within and exclusivity of who can participate. I guess the need to control is human nature. I understand the economics (and there is big money involved). I guess I am just disappointed that distillers like FR are willing and/or allowing themselves to buy into this level of control. I am not naïve but I was hoping they were a little above that. Who needs who here? I guess it is a sign of the times. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 They should be about promoting the industry not creating exclusivity within and exclusivity of who can participate. I guess the need to control is human nature. Nah . . . . it's the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theglobalguy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Nah . . . . it's the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravensfire Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 If i read the notes on the site right, even the $1,350 golden ticket doesn't get you any actual product to bring home. A few samples drank here and there (WT 60th anniv. as an example) but no trophy bottle to wave in front of your buddies when you get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts