About All Things Pappy/VanWinkle

[flahute]

55 minutes ago, Bourbonmakesmepoop said:

That is what they call "bourbon zen".

i am starting to share this mindset several years into my hobby but I'm not quite there yet. I do see myself getting there much sooner than expected though. 

Somewhere in the archives is an entire thread devoted to the concept of Bourbon Zen. 

[Guardian Enzo]

I just want to get one, really - then I think I could be a cork bobbing peacefully with the current.  I got into bourbon too late - the boom was already in full-swing - and I've never once scored a bottle of Pappy or BTAC (and it's WLW I covet most of all).  I know intellectually that it's not worth obsessing over, that there's plenty of great whiskey out there that you can actually buy.  But like I said, I just want the satisfaction of that one score.

[BigPapa]

6 hours ago, Guardian Enzo said:

I just want to get one, really - then I think I could be a cork bobbing peacefully with the current.  I got into bourbon too late - the boom was already in full-swing - and I've never once scored a bottle of Pappy or BTAC (and it's WLW I covet most of all).  I know intellectually that it's not worth obsessing over, that there's plenty of great whiskey out there that you can actually buy.  But like I said, I just want the satisfaction of that one score.

I think that's what the problem is with the Pappy situation these days. 

New bourbon enthusiast will pay whatever they can just to say they have scored a bottle of Pappy. 

Im happy with my booker's , but when the time comes and I have the chance to get a bottle of 15 yr. I won't pass it up

[Guardian Enzo]

4 hours ago, BigPapa said:

I think that's what the problem is with the Pappy situation these days. 

New bourbon enthusiast will pay whatever they can just to say they have scored a bottle of Pappy. 

Im happy with my booker's , but when the time comes and I have the chance to get a bottle of 15 yr. I won't pass it up

 

That's definitely not me - even if it were practical for me financially (it's not) I refuse to pay secondary prices for whiskey on principle.  And like I said, it's honestly more about BTAC than Pappy for me in terms of what I actually want a bottle of to consume (which is what I would do with any bottle I found).  There's just something about the quest that's appealing - I want to score one of these unicorns at retail because it's so damn hard.

[flahute]

3 hours ago, Guardian Enzo said:

 

That's definitely not me - even if it were practical for me financially (it's not) I refuse to pay secondary prices for whiskey on principle.  And like I said, it's honestly more about BTAC than Pappy for me in terms of what I actually want a bottle of to consume (which is what I would do with any bottle I found).  There's just something about the quest that's appealing - I want to score one of these unicorns at retail because it's so damn hard.

I think what he means - in very general terms - is the tendency of the modern consumer to get into something new and to immediately want to jump into the very top end of whatever it is. The "what is the best.....?" syndrome. Even though there is no "best" because we all like different things, all the magazines and blogs and websites have been saying for years that Pappy and BTAC are the best so newcomers to bourbon show up and say "I want that". Then some of them are willing to pay whatever it takes.

The previous generation didn't spend that kind of money very easily. The started at the bottom shelf and worked their way up over time as they got more familiar or as special occasions warranted. Their cabinets would be full of basic daily drinkers and only one or a few mid shelf to high shelf bottles. A large number of today's enthusiasts who have been into bourbon for less than a year have a cabinet full of $100 bottles and it takes them a couple years to realize that there's very good bourbon available in the $20-30 range.

[lcpfratn]

I think what he means - in very general terms - is the tendency of the modern consumer to get into something new and to immediately want to jump into the very top end of whatever it is. The "what is the best.....?" syndrome. Even though there is no "best" because we all like different things, all the magazines and blogs and websites have been saying for years that Pappy and BTAC are the best so newcomers to bourbon show up and say "I want that". Then some of them are willing to pay whatever it takes.
The previous generation didn't spend that kind of money very easily. The started at the bottom shelf and worked their way up over time as they got more familiar or as special occasions warranted. Their cabinets would be full of basic daily drinkers and only one or a few mid shelf to high shelf bottles. A large number of today's enthusiasts who have been into bourbon for less than a year have a cabinet full of $100 bottles and it takes them a couple years to realize that there's very good bourbon available in the $20-30 range.

I'm definitely guilty of some of this, but I am trying things from all shelf levels, so I don't fit the profile of your last statement. The accountant in me also limits my upper end bottle price to around the $100 price point. If I find something I like and it's LE, being discontinued or going NAS, I'll also stock up even though I know it will take many, many years for me to consume it (such as EC12, Ardmore Traditional Cask, OGD114). I really don't have much interest in Pappy 20 and 23 because I think it's way overpriced and beyond what I'm willing to spend on a bottle anyway. However, I was fortunate enough to be able to get a Van Winkle 12 year Lot B yesterday at normal retail, and I'm hopeful that I'll be able to get a 10 or 15 year soon.


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[fishnbowljoe]

2 hours ago, flahute said:

I think what he means - in very general terms - is the tendency of the modern consumer to get into something new and to immediately want to jump into the very top end of whatever it is. The "what is the best.....?" syndrome. Even though there is no "best" because we all like different things, all the magazines and blogs and websites have been saying for years that Pappy and BTAC are the best so newcomers to bourbon show up and say "I want that". Then some of them are willing to pay whatever it takes.

The previous generation didn't spend that kind of money very easily. The started at the bottom shelf and worked their way up over time as they got more familiar or as special occasions warranted. Their cabinets would be full of basic daily drinkers and only one or a few mid shelf to high shelf bottles. A large number of today's enthusiasts who have been into bourbon for less than a year have a cabinet full of $100 bottles and it takes them a couple years to realize that there's very good bourbon available in the $20-30 range.

 

True that Steve.

 

Another thing that kinda goes with all this, is the "thrill of the hunt" syndrome. I must confess that a number of years ago, hunting for, then actually/finally finding a "special" bottle was sometimes better than the bottle itself.  FWIW, I'm enjoying a nice pour of JTS Brown BIB as I type this. 

[flahute]

2 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

 

True that Steve.

 

Another thing that kinda goes with all this, is the "thrill of the hunt" syndrome. I must confess that a number of years ago, hunting for, then actually/finally finding a "special" bottle was sometimes better than the bottle itself.  FWIW, I'm enjoying a nice pour of JTS Brown BIB as I type this. 

Oh yes. The thrill of the hunt is real. I was that guy for a while and I sure did get a rush when I scored.

I could only keep it up for so long though. Now the thought of it just tires me out. Like many here I have so much good whiskey in the cabinet that I'm just content to stay home.

Unfortunately, the number of newcomers coming into the hobby willing to hunt voraciously more than offsets all of us who won't do it anymore.

[BigPapa]

16 hours ago, flahute said:

I think what he means - in very general terms - is the tendency of the modern consumer to get into something new and to immediately want to jump into the very top end of whatever it is. The "what is the best.....?" syndrome. Even though there is no "best" because we all like different things, all the magazines and blogs and websites have been saying for years that Pappy and BTAC are the best so newcomers to bourbon show up and say "I want that". Then some of them are willing to pay whatever it takes.

The previous generation didn't spend that kind of money very easily. The started at the bottom shelf and worked their way up over time as they got more familiar or as special occasions warranted. Their cabinets would be full of basic daily drinkers and only one or a few mid shelf to high shelf bottles. A large number of today's enthusiasts who have been into bourbon for less than a year have a cabinet full of $100 bottles and it takes them a couple years to realize that there's very good bourbon available in the $20-30 range.

Exactly . Thank you for clarifying my thoughts.

Edited December 10, 2016 by BigPapa

[garbanzobean]

On 12/7/2016 at 3:07 PM, smokinjoe said:

I empathize.  Fact is, you're in a very tough and competitive market.  for LE availability.  I can tell you I know of folks in your area who are decades and 10's of thousands of dollars into this hobby, and are doing no better.  Too much demand for a scarce product.  

The frustration many of us feel about the scarcity of limited edition bourbon (myself included) results in a lot of griping.  The feeling I get discussing LE bourbon kind of reminds me of how I feel when I get caught in a good old fashioned DC area traffic jam.  The fact is, it's a seller's market right now.  QPR goes out the window.  Pricing and availability are not on our side in such a supply/demand curve.  Indeed, I expect to see the major distilleries begin experimenting with massive price increases soon, similar to Diageo and other scotch giants.  Well, BT/Saz/VW anyway.  Willet already appears happy to charge $20-$30 per year in the barrel.

 

http://blog.thewhiskyexchange.com/2016/09/diageo-special-releases-2016/

 

Back to the comparison to DC traffic, the options for dealing with that are pretty similar to what we are stuck with in the bourbon world:

 

Find a way to suffer through the situation patiently, avoid it altogether (stop living or working in the area, or be willing to adjust work schedule to some pretty undesirable times),  or develop terrible road rage/hypertension.  

 

I try to go with the grin and bear it approach myself, though I consistently find myself eyeing mountain town properties in Colorado, Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming.

[garbanzobean]

Case in point:

 

http://bourbonr.com/blog/death-of-a-bourbon-generation/

[kjbeggs]

My "Hunting" has pretty much become just checking in with the one store I mainly shop at to see if he's got anything interesting for me, and also participating in that store's annual holiday lottery.

This year my lotto number was fairly far back and so I ended up with a FRSBLE (nothing to be unhappy about for sure, but no PVW/BTAC).

I also donated a bottle (GB Cowboy bourbon) to his charity auction.

Anyway, a week after that lottery, I got a phone call from a local chain, saying my name was drawn in their Allocated bottle drawing.

I asked what was available, and listened as they went down the list- "... Elmer T Lee, Weller 12 (sigh)... Yamazaki, Pappy 10,12,20... (wait right there)...Lagavulin..."

I, of course selected the PVW 20 (according to them, the only bottle they got) even though it was a bit overpriced at $200, and considered it good Bourbon Karma for my donation.

[Oboe Cadobro]

On 12/15/2016 at 11:20 AM, kjbeggs said:

I, of course selected the PVW 20 (according to them, the only bottle they got) even though it was a bit overpriced at $200, and considered it good Bourbon Karma for my donation.

 

I consider the 15 to be the sweet spot in the lineup...but if they had no 15, then I probably wouldn't think longer than about 3 seconds before gritting my teeth and ponying up for the 20...

[Purdue3kgt]

I was truly lucky-- this has been my first fall vying for PVWs & I happened to score the 20yr & 15yr within a day @ retail through a local store's lottery.  Then I was able to buy a Lot B @ retail at another local establishment just by emailing them & asking.  Finally, my father-in-law won a separate lottery for ORVW & knew that I had been hunting & kindly purchased it & gave it to me.

 

I plan on keeping/drinking all of them, not trying to flip or sell for profits, but it is still a rush to find/purchase a "unicorn" bottle that so many people are after.

 

[tanstaafl2]

17 minutes ago, Purdue3kgt said:

I was truly lucky-- this has been my first fall vying for PVWs & I happened to score the 20yr & 15yr within a day @ retail through a local store's lottery.  Then I was able to buy a Lot B @ retail at another local establishment just by emailing them & asking.  Finally, my father-in-law won a separate lottery for ORVW & knew that I had been hunting & kindly purchased it & gave it to me.

 

I plan on keeping/drinking all of them, not trying to flip or sell for profits, but it is still a rush to find/purchase a "unicorn" bottle that so many people are after.

 

 

That is indeed quite a good run on your first try! Might want to buy a lottery ticket next...

[kjbeggs]

On 12/20/2016 at 3:42 PM, Oboe Cadobro said:

 

I consider the 15 to be the sweet spot in the lineup...but if they had no 15, then I probably wouldn't think longer than about 3 seconds before gritting my teeth and ponying up for the 20...

Yeah, it was the 20, Old Rip 10, or Lot B. (And I have two 15's as opposed to only one 20).

[Mickbourbon]

I had a conversation with a friend of mine a few weeks ago and he asked me what pappy/van winkle would I get if I could. I told him the 13 yo rye as I haven't had it yet. I thought it was a what if conversation but apparently he had a line on some pvw and was feeling me out.  lo and behold guess what I received for Christmas. He says I owe him and I had to agree with him. Merry Christmas he said. What a friend. 

[meadeweber]

21 hours ago, Mickbourbon said:

I had a conversation with a friend of mine a few weeks ago and he asked me what pappy/van winkle would I get if I could. I told him the 13 yo rye as I haven't had it yet. I thought it was a what if conversation but apparently he had a line on some pvw and was feeling me out.  lo and behold guess what I received for Christmas. He says I owe him and I had to agree with him. Merry Christmas he said. What a friend. 

A good fried indeed.  Congrats.

But don't you wish you would have said 23 y/o? 

[Mickbourbon]

1 hour ago, meadeweber said:

A good fried indeed.  Congrats.

But don't you wish you would have said 23 y/o? 

I have a couple of those already. I am happier with being able to try something different. 

[elmossle]

We were back in KY visiting family for the holiday and was with the wife making a quick stop around town. Left the kids with grandma and only had the wife with me when she says "oh that house we just passed is where the Van Winkle's lived. I can't remember how many times we had sleepovers there." I remember them throwing us a wedding party and all, but it still slips my mind sometimes, how close the wife was to the VW girls and the VW empire. And somehow this has done me no good on the acquiring of this expression of brown water. At least we had some damn good booze at the wedding party!

[flahute]

43 minutes ago, elmossle said:

We were back in KY visiting family for the holiday and was with the wife making a quick stop around town. Left the kids with grandma and only had the wife with me when she says "oh that house we just passed is where the Van Winkle's lived. I can't remember how many times we had sleepovers there." I remember them throwing us a wedding party and all, but it still slips my mind sometimes, how close the wife was to the VW girls and the VW empire. And somehow this has done me no good on the acquiring of this expression of brown water. At least we had some damn good booze at the wedding party!

Dang.....that's crazy. That should at least be good for a one bottle hookup per year.

[Kyjd75]

16 hours ago, elmossle said:

We were back in KY visiting family for the holiday and was with the wife making a quick stop around town. Left the kids with grandma and only had the wife with me when she says "oh that house we just passed is where the Van Winkle's lived. I can't remember how many times we had sleepovers there." I remember them throwing us a wedding party and all, but it still slips my mind sometimes, how close the wife was to the VW girls and the VW empire. And somehow this has done me no good on the acquiring of this expression of brown water. At least we had some damn good booze at the wedding party!

 

Another story of being oh so close to the Van Winkles and their whiskey.  Beginning in the late 50's-early 60's my father was one of the owners of the Lucas-Husey tobacco warehouses in Louisville.  These warehouses constituted the tobacco auction market for Louisville back in the days when tobacco was sold in this fashion.  Right across the street from one of their major warehouses was the Steitzel-Weller distillery!  I can remember as a young teenager occasionally going there to help out during Christmas school break and the smells of the distillery were very prominent.  During the off season S-W used to store barrels temporarily in our warehouse.  If we had only know then what we know today . . . 

[jd1585]

On 12/23/2016 at 4:19 PM, kjbeggs said:

Yeah, it was the 20, Old Rip 10, or Lot B. (And I have two 15's as opposed to only one 20).

I have only had the Old Rip and I can say it was unlike anything I have ever had. I heard it is similar to OWA, but I haven't tried that one either.

[Hrchokie]

Any reason not to trade 2 Blantons for a half full bottle of 20 yr PVW? A friend offered and I've never had it.

[musekatcher]

5 hours ago, Hrchokie said:

Any reason not to trade 2 Blantons for a half full bottle of 20 yr PVW? A friend offered and I've never had it.

 

Having sampled half bottles left "aging" at our summer cabin, I'm a firm believer that whiskey changes after its opened, albeit slowly at first, but faster as you drop to half or less.  Worse for unfiltered whiskey.   If you doubt this, pour a shot and leave it sitting out for 24-48 hours.  You'll get the accelerated affect.  In otherwords, if its been opened long, you may not be enjoying the PVW experience.   I'd much rather have two unopened Blanton's than an old, half bottle of semi-PVW.  Even though, the bottle alone is worth more than two Blantons

Edited March 15, 2017 by musekatcher