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About All Things Pappy/VanWinkle


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Well, what proportion of BT's wheated bourbon becomes Pappy? 1%? 5%? Whatever it is, BT still has to find a way to sell all the rest. So, it's unlikely they're particularly concerned with boosting Pappy volume unless it becomes a greater percentage of total volume. Every honey barrel withheld from the standard bottling must diminish the quality of the standard, and that will likely lead to lower sales volume. It's a seesaw, not a hyperbolic growth graph.

For me, I'd like to see smaller Pappy volumes and better tasting Weller 12 and OWA [or better yet, Pappy-quality private selections of brand standards]. I admit it, I'm a Private Selection horn-blower.

Edited by MauiSon
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Trader Joe's has a House brand maple syrup aged in bourbon barrels that we've been buying for years.  Had some on Sunday AM on blueberry pancakes.  The slight char note helps cut the pure sugar note t

I think in reaction to the boom the old mashbill “rules” are very loose now.     

Nope, I would agree on Lot B.  I am not certain it is anything significantly better than regular W12.  It is up to $99 SRP and I honestly do not think it is worth the price of admission.  I have been

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All that's needed to increase PVW production is print more labels.

Not so much more labels as different labels. For every extra PVW label you print you will need one (or more) fewer Weller labels!

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I read tea leaves for pappy release dates. Damn leaves are never wrong

I understand that Jimmy reads the turds from the GBS goat, but gets mixed results

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What's got me worked up lately is seeing Willett Family Estate 10 year bourbon priced at $120 from multiple retailers - I've tasted one of them and it was good, just not $120 good, or even $80 good. I've been a huge fan of WFE in the past and I've bought many great bottles at $60-$70 for similar aged bourbon - 8 yr, 10, 12yr, etc. but I'll pass on $120 bourbon. And I wonder how many other people will as well. I'm sure it'll sell this year, but will it next year?

I agree @BlackTot that it seems like makers are pushing peak pricing this year. I know many people (myself among them) have thought of bourbon as a great whiskey alternative at a better price point than Single Malt Scotches. And yes I know they are different but if WFE and PVW15 are in the $120 -$150, or more range, suddenly for me they are directly competing with Single Malts and there are a lot of great single malts that cost less than $100. I could buy a bottle Springbank 15 year and a bottle of 4RSB for $120. I think the success of PVW and BTAC has given brands a vision of easy success for premium spirits - but they don't have a public trained to regularly buy whisky priced at 2, 3 or 4 times their usual purchase point.

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I think part of the appeal of premium Bourbon in recent years was the escalating price of single malt. As the gap narrows that advantage lessens.

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I think that things like Diamond Anniversary, the Orphan Barrel releases, and some of the $50/375mL releases are starting to show that though Van Winkle stuff can still command a serious premium, there's a pretty distinct cap of $100 for special releases, let alone "everyday" bottlings. OK, maybe Kentucky Owl thwarts that theory a little.

The move to the $120 range for WFE products will certainly be a canary in the coalmine of potentially way-overpriced bourbon.

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garbanzobean
I think part of the appeal of premium Bourbon in recent years was the escalating price of single malt. As the gap narrows that advantage lessens.
Single malt whisky prices for individual brands have escalated out of control, to the point where the likes of Ardbeg, Macallan, and even Yamazaki have priced normal buyers out of the market. This has led to a resurgence of other spirits whose quality isn't suffering from the same demand stretches as the frontrunners, and I'm thankful for that. Because these bourbon prices are starting to not make any damn sense.

While I am not thrilled with the difficulty inherent in purchasing anything with "Van Winkle" name written on it, at least they keep their pricing relatively consistent. Even if they were all available on the shelf at MSRP right now, the only two I'd really consider reaching for are the VW 10 and PVW15. And only the 15 because I've never gotten to try it. The 12, 20, and 23 are just not my thing.

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I'd guess people are seeing what's going on in the secondary market and figure they should have a slice of that. I suppose too some of the steep retail markup.

If a 11 year old Willett Bourbon lists for $125, it will be interesting to see the profit flip the secondary market supports vs lower list prices.

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I'd guess people are seeing what's going on in the secondary market and figure they should have a slice of that. I suppose too some of the steep retail markup.

If a 11 year old Willett Bourbon lists for $125, it will be interesting to see the profit flip the secondary market supports vs lower list prices.

And if they are no longer "flippable" then they will stay on the shelves much longer. My guess is that not many people are going to want to pay $150 for an 11 year barrel proof of unknown origins, but who knows, they are paying $100-$125.

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And if they are no longer "flippable" then they will stay on the shelves much longer. My guess is that not many people are going to want to pay $150 for an 11 year barrel proof of unknown origins, but who knows, they are paying $100-$125.

Ya, I just got a new email about their next Willett barrel going up for sale. $140 after shipping to get it to NYC. Another store had a 7 year Rye for $107 :( I just cant get down with that, without a taste....hell even with.

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garbanzobean

My preferred bottle shop is doing a raffle this year for the entire BTAC and VW lines. They have 50 bottles up for grabs, and will allow picks from the order they drew names. While I certainly would prefer to have a bottle or two put aside for me, I can't fault them in the least for doing this. I went ahead and threw my name into the raffle. Not really worried if I don't get anything, and if I get my name drawn and don't want what they have left, I have plenty of friends and fellow SBers who I'm sure will be glad to have the bottle passed onto them.

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fishnbowljoe
Let's see, a case of 10 year old McKenna sells for . . .

Who gives a rats ass? Not relevant in any way, shape or form at all. :searching:

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And if they are no longer "flippable" then they will stay on the shelves much longer. My guess is that not many people are going to want to pay $150 for an 11 year barrel proof of unknown origins, but who knows, they are paying $100-$125.
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Ya, I just got a new email about their next Willett barrel going up for sale. $140 after shipping to get it to NYC. Another store had a 7 year Rye for $107 :( I just cant get down with that, without a taste....hell even with.

7 year Rye pricing isn't only NYC markup, in rural MD, I saw bottles sell for $85 that only a year ago had 5 year Rye for $37

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fishnbowljoe

I guess some folks didn't get the intended meaning of my previous post. This thread is about All Things Pappy! Things had finally come around to where people were actually using this thread for their Pappy posts. Now it's gotten completely off track with posts about Willett, Henry McKenna, Orhan Barrels, Kentucky Owl, scotch, rye….. Let's get back on track, and watch the thread drift here and in other threads/forums please. It would be much appreciated.

Joe

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fishnbowljoe

Thanks Griff.

I don't really go out and activly search for Pappy any more. If I happen to luck into some, fine. I usually won't turn it down if the price is right. The last couple of years, the only thing that really interests me is the ORVW 10/107 anyway. As luck would have it, I've been able to grab a few of those at the suggested retail price, so no complaints here. I'm happy.

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Thanks Griff. I don't really go out and activly search for Pappy any more. If I happen to luck into some, fine. I usually won't turn it down if the price is right. The last couple of years, the only thing that really interests me is the ORVW 10/107 anyway. As luck would have it, I've been able to grab a few of those at the suggested retail price, so no complaints here. I'm happy.
I'll second this. I haven't really gotten in on the Pappy backlash, but at the same time if I don't get it from the VA ABC allocations I don't go looking. Mostly because I've gotten really lucky the past few years (2 PVW 15, 2 Lot B, 2 ORVW 10), and have been spoiled by getting it at MSRP. I'd love to try an aged wheater, so if I came across the 20 I'd love to try it, have it. At this point though I'd really rather get in on some 4R SmB LEs or some of the BTAC bottles other than Handy.
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I haven't seen any Pappy in my area in years. I think it may be a lost cause at this point. Oh well, plenty of other bourbon.

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