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awachatz

Vatting Suggestions to Mirror VWFRR

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awachatz

My hopes of ever getting a bottle of VWFRR at a reasonable price have evaporated a long time ago. No more in the the bunker, so wanted to figure out what my best alternative is as a replacement. Has anyone had any luck vatting to achieve something close in taste? I'm not optimistic, but had to ask. I conducted a search to see if this was discussed previously, but didn't really find anything specific (granted having two little ones at home doesn't give me much time to dig very deep). Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated as this is my favorite pour of any whiskey.

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dSculptor

That'd be a tough one, might have to get Gary's (gillman) opinion on that one. I only have a few rye's, (although I'm liking 'em more and more) so the only really place to begin is with a good collection of rye's, then you could start taking a little here and a little there, but you would have to have the target on hand or try to remember from previous taste... which would be difficult. I guess in my vats I don't really try to match something, always looking for something else......JMHO

Good Luck my friend!

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Old Dusty

Smartass reply #1: you can vat Cream of Kentucky rye and Medley rye to approximate the flavor.

Smartass reply #2: since BT has been blending in their rye you can vat CEHT rye, Baby Saz and THH.

Non-smartass reply: Try Rendezvous Rye and Saz 18 or RR and Baby Saz or Ritt BIB if you can't find the BTAC.

Edited by Old Dusty

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awachatz

Thanks.

My concern is that if I start vatting without some direction, I am the mad scientist type. I will end up burning through a lot of juice, with the majority of the concoctions not resulting in anything exciting or tasty. Creating something new has been easy, but creating something new that tastes great is a whole other matter.

As you suggested, hopefully I can get Gary's (gillman) opinion.

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awachatz
Smartass reply #1: you can vat Cream of Kentucky rye and Medley rye to approximate the flavor.

Smartass reply #2: since BT has been blending in their rye you can vat CEHT rye, Baby Saz and THH.

Non-smartass reply: Try Rendezvous Rye and Saz 18 or RR and Baby Saz or Ritt BIB if you can't find the BTAC.

LOL. I figured that I would get more than a few smartass reply's as the question begs for those kinds of replies. I still felt I had to ask though as I might get a few practical suggestions too.

If I were to mix Rendezvous Rye and Baby Saz (or Ritt BIB), would you suggest a 50/50 mix or some other ratio? I will give it a try unless someone else can offer a better recommendation.

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Gillman

Thanks for the suggestion from dSculptor. This wouldn't be that hard. I'd use Eagle Rare 10, which has the right 10-12 year age range, and any straight rye you can get about that age, say any version of 10-12 year old straight rye from Alberta Distillers as bottled by Jefferson or another of the apparently known bottlings, Whistle Pig, etc. I'd start with 2:1 the bourbon to the rye, or maybe even less rye to the bourbon. Any Wild Turkey around 10-12 years old would work too for the bourbon especially an older, split-label bottling.

Anyone who has these please try it and let us know.

Gary

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Old Dusty
If I were to mix Rendezvous Rye and Baby Saz (or Ritt BIB), would you suggest a 50/50 mix or some other ratio? I will give it a try unless someone else can offer a better recommendation.

First go with Gary's suggestions. He is the vatting savant. But if you try mine I would actually use the Ritt as it is more "bourbony" as many feel the VWFRR is too. So try 1:1, the Rendezvous will give you the age and the Ritt the profile. Good luck!

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fishnbowljoe
My concern is that if I start vatting without some direction, I am the mad scientist type. I will end up burning through a lot of juice, with the majority of the concoctions not resulting in anything exciting or tasty.

You can also include me in the mad scientist group. Although I'm not into ryes, I do have a little experience when it comes to vatting. ;) I have a couple of suggestions that might help.

When I decided to do my Weller vattings, I too, was concerned about possibly wasting too much good juice on concoctions that weren't very good. I grabbed two or three glasses, the bottles I intended to use, and my graduated shot glass, and headed for the kitchen. It was my intention to use only my graduated shot glass, but our set of measuring spoons came to mind, so I grabbed them out of the drawer. Using teaspoons, tablespoons or a graduated shot glass is a bit more tedious than just pouring an ounce or two, but it gets the job done. Once you settle in on what you think is a good mixture, then try using ounces. It worked out pretty good for me. So, start small, and use a graduated shot glass, and/or measuring spoons.

Good luck Tony. I hope this has helped a little. Let us know how things pan out.

Joe

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Gillman
First go with Gary's suggestions. He is the vatting savant. But if you try mine I would actually use the Ritt as it is more "bourbony" as many feel the VWFRR is too. So try 1:1, the Rendezvous will give you the age and the Ritt the profile. Good luck!

Hey thanks but I'm sure yours is good too. The Rittenhouse is much younger though unless you find the 10 year old version that was export-only and going back some years now. Saz 18 rye might work well though with various bourbons especially as the VWFRR got older with time.

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Gillman

Thanks but your suggestions (Old Dusty) would be good too, however with Saz 18 and Ritt you are over and under the "classic" age range of VWFRR, although VWFRR did get older in time, up to 18 in fact. It was best though at 12-13 years, IMO (I'm including the slightly younger, if it was, Old Time rye in this).

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awachatz
I'd use Eagle Rare 10, which has the right 10-12 year age range, and any straight rye you can get about that age, say any version of 10-12 year old straight rye from Alberta Distillers as bottled by Jefferson or another of the apparently known bottlings, Whistle Pig, etc. I'd start with 2:1 the bourbon to the rye, or maybe even less rye to the bourbon. Any Wild Turkey around 10-12 years old would work too for the bourbon especially an older, split-label bottling.

Thank you Gary. I will wait a few days to see if anyone has these, tries it, and provides a review. If not, I will experiment myself. Need to pick up a few supplies based on what is available in Michigan related to 10-12 year straight rye.

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awachatz
First go with Gary's suggestions. He is the vatting savant. But if you try mine I would actually use the Ritt as it is more "bourbony" as many feel the VWFRR is too. So try 1:1, the Rendezvous will give you the age and the Ritt the profile. Good luck!

I do agree with the "bourbony" feel of VWFRR. When I go to try Gary's suggestions, I am strongly considering experimenting with this one at the same time. I will let everyone know unless someone on the board has them readily available, tries, and posts sooner. Thanks again.

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awachatz
When I decided to do my Weller vattings, I too, was concerned about possibly wasting too much good juice on concoctions that weren't very good. I grabbed two or three glasses, the bottles I intended to use, and my graduated shot glass, and headed for the kitchen. It was my intention to use only my graduated shot glass, but our set of measuring spoons came to mind, so I grabbed them out of the drawer. Using teaspoons, tablespoons or a graduated shot glass is a bit more tedious than just pouring an ounce or two, but it gets the job done. Once you settle in on what you think is a good mixture, then try using ounces. It worked out pretty good for me. So, start small, and use a graduated shot glass, and/or measuring spoons.

Thanks Joe. Will do.

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The Black Tot

What a great thread.

I too am now coming to terms with the unlikelihood I will be getting a VWFRR. Especially given my unwillingness to pay aftermarket.

This thread gives me hope. Subscribed.

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jeffrey r

I actually just gave this a go. Followed Gary's suggestion of 2:1 ER 10/90 and Whistlepig 10/100.

First hasty taste after a couple of minutes was uninspiring. Thin and lacking flavor. Next few sips after more time melding, were a much different story. Really quite delicious.

Poured a small pour of VWFRR, and dare I say, they actually were similar, and the vatting more than held its own. Curious for others to give this a go and post their thoughts.

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The Black Tot

Excellent first round.

If Whistlepig is working, are there more economical Canadian ryes that might fit the bill?

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Gillman
I actually just gave this a go. Followed Gary's suggestion of 2:1 ER 10/90 and Whistlepig 10/100.

First hasty taste after a couple of minutes was uninspiring. Thin and lacking flavor. Next few sips after more time melding, were a much different story. Really quite delicious.

Poured a small pour of VWFRR, and dare I say, they actually were similar, and the vatting more than held its own. Curious for others to give this a go and post their thoughts.

Good to hear this, thanks very much.

Gary

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Gillman
Excellent first round.

If Whistlepig is working, are there more economical Canadian ryes that might fit the bill?

Not really because there aren't that many around 10-13 years old which have the requisite woody character. You could try Lot 40 (around 8 years old) and rely on the wood in the bourbon base, possibly.

Gary

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The Black Tot

Thanks, Gary.

I've actually been sitting on some Lock, Stock, and Barrel 13yr that I was fearing I might have little use for, given some of the reviews. This could solve that problem...

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mbroo5880i

As Gary mentioned earlier, Jefferson's Rye is another option. It is 10 years old and 94 proof. Some of the older bottles are labelled as a product of Canada and rumored to be from the Alberta Distillery. I still see a fair amount of those bottles around. They switched to an undisclosed KY source but I am not sure when. However, it was only a few years back. There is an even older, older version that was non chill filtered. Those are more difficult to find. It sells for anywhere from $25 to $40, depending on where you live.

I have both ER10/90 and Jeff10/94 (NCF) but won't be able to try a vatting until later this weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have any VWFRR for a SBS. However, I can still share how it tastes. I was happy to see Gary suggest two whiskeys that I already have!

Edited by mbroo5880i

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Gillman

It sounds perfect for this. (To Black Tot re Lock, Stock & Barrel).

Gary

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jeffrey r

I just whipped up a bigger batch of the Eagle Rare and Whistlepig vatting to let sit together for awhile. I think extended melding time will do this vatting good.

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awachatz

Well, sounds like some positive results from the ER 10/90 & Whistle Pig. I wish they sold Whistle Pig in Michigan. Tried it once and enjoyed it.

We use to have Jefferson 10 yr Rye, but not longer in the state price book and hard to find. I guess I could use Lock, Stock, & Barrel with EC 10/90, but kind of pricey for a 13 year Rye.

I will hunt around for a Jefferson 10, if not it might be Ritt & HW RR as my test.

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jaycamm

I would also consider adding a third, older element to the mix. A little bit of EC18 or Barterhouse or Jeff21 should add a bit of depth and age to a WP/ER10 blend.

Edited by jaycamm

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awachatz

Well I tried a vatting of HW Rendverous Rye and Rittenhouse. Didn't have any VWFRR to compare to, but didn't taste anything like it. Worth a try, but I believe the Whistle Pig and ER 10/90 would be a closer option. Don't get me wrong, the vatting wasn't bad just not hitting the target.

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