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awachatz

Vatting Suggestions to Mirror VWFRR

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BonVivant84

Never tried VWFRR so have no idea how it compares, but this thread inspired me to try the 50/50 ER10 and WP and I absolutely loved it. Super subtle rye spice, old leather and the best part for me was the dry finish.

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jeffrey r

My 2:1 ER and WP vatting (with a bit of Barterhouse thrown in as suggested above) was tasting mighty fine last evening. This has been vatting for about a week, so it is well mingled by now.

Lots of bourbony goodness. Lots of rye spice. Really quite good. I had a small pour of VWFRR at the end, and I do think they taste similar. To be honest, I think I would prefer the vatting in a blind test, but the bourbon in that mix may be winning me over as I do prefer bourbon over rye when it comes down to it. Both great though.

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The Black Tot

Very cool, Jeffrey. How would you describe the final ratio including the quantity of the Barterhouse?

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jeffrey r
Very cool, Jeffrey. How would you describe the final ratio including the quantity of the Barterhouse?

I started out with 2:1 ER to WP. I then threw in a couple of "glugs" of Bartherhouse, with a corresponding couple of "glugs" of WP. Thus, keeping the ratio of bourbon to rye at 2:1. Since I prepared between 1-1.75L of the blend, the Barterhouse was essentially a "splash".

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The Black Tot

Roger that. 2:1, glug:glug :)

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Paddy
I started out with 2:1 ER to WP. I then threw in a couple of "glugs" of Bartherhouse, with a corresponding couple of "glugs" of WP. Thus, keeping the ratio of bourbon to rye at 2:1. Since I prepared between 1-1.75L of the blend, the Barterhouse was essentially a "splash".

It is always refreshing to see someone else that mixes like me.:grin:

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dSculptor

Ok Guys, thought I would give this a bit more thought, and seeing as I do have the VWFRR,but not many ryes, I tried some concoctions tonight ,and may have come up with a clone or very close, at least that's what I'm thinking at this time of night.

So if any of guys out there have these try this and let me know I'm not crazy, but you really have to have the target on hand to get an accurate comparison between them.

I started with.. Jefferson's collaboration, along with some CEHT SB ..1:1 ratio, tried that, (mind you I have some VWFRR to compare it too) not really there.. so I added me some 4RSmB Le 2014,then tried again, still not there,( nose is closer) then added some TH 2013,....close ... a bit harsh, so I added a few drops of water...bingo! I keep going back and forth as I'm writing this and there is a difference.....if you're looking for it,... otherwise.......?

That'd be cool if anyone else can confirm this, or at least give me their opinion after they tried the experiment: Like I've said I like to Vat for something different, but it's kind of fun to vat to obtain a certain profile.

Ok so hear is the final ratio: Jcollab/CEHt SB -1:1...then 4RS le :1/2 of the previous , along with the TH at the same, then a few drops of water to taste.. If that sounds right?

Edited by dSculptor

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The Black Tot

I have faith in your results. But isn't the goal to approach the unobtainium VWFRR with things that are attainable?

Specific years of BTAC and 4R limiteds are soon to be almost as hard to get as the target in this case.

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dSculptor
I have faith in your results. But isn't the goal to approach the unobtainium VWFRR with things that are attainable?

Specific years of BTAC and 4R limiteds are soon to be almost as hard to get as the target in this case.

Very true!, But alas, it is all I have on hand to try to obtain the target! But trying to obtain something that's already unobtainable requires unobtainable ingredients! :cool: It was still fun!!

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LCWoody

If anyone runs across a JPS 21y Rye pick it up. It's the closest thing to VWR right out of the bottle. I have both open right now and they are close. I'm going to add some bourbon to the JPS rye and see if I can get it a little closer.

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tanstaafl2
Ok so hear is the final ratio: Jcollab/CEHt SB -1:1...then 4RS le :1/2 of the previous , along with the TH at the same, then a few drops of water to taste.. If that sounds right?

Interesting. I would think this is a good bit less heavy in the rye component of the mashbill as it is only bourbon until you add the relatively low rye Handy. Not that it couldn't have a similar taste as most seem to think VWFRR is a bit on the bourbon-y side of rye.

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squire
. . . trying to obtain something that's already unobtainable requires unobtainable ingredients! It was still fun!!

Which is what it's all about. Fun is why we do this in the evening instead of playing Bingo.

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tanstaafl2
If anyone runs across a JPS 21y Rye pick it up. It's the closest thing to VWR right out of the bottle. I have both open right now and they are close. I'm going to add some bourbon to the JPS rye and see if I can get it a little closer.

Didn't strike me as close as best I can remember but perhaps will have to give this a SBS try again soon!

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The Black Tot

Perhaps we are dealing with the dreaded Jefferson's batch differences? LCWoody, what batch were you drinking?

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LCWoody

Its batch #2. There is definitely way more rye in the JPS. But with some bourbon added it gets close to VWR. This is probably a bad reference because it's damn near as hard to find JPS as VWR.

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The Black Tot
Its batch #2. There is definitely way more rye in the JPS. But with some bourbon added it gets close to VWR. This is probably a bad reference because it's damn near as hard to find JPS as VWR.

Haha, yeah, sort of. More expensive, too!

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flahute
Its batch #2. There is definitely way more rye in the JPS. But with some bourbon added it gets close to VWR. This is probably a bad reference because it's damn near as hard to find JPS as VWR.

Let me know how it goes with a little bourbon added! I have an unopened JPS 21 rye and know where I can get another.

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LCWoody

I'm thinking and Old Grand-dad 114 or a Rock Hills Forms. To keep the proof where it needs to be.

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The Black Tot

Kentucky Vintage XO might be a good candidate for proof maintenance - it clocks in at 107 and is 10yrs old IIRC.

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awachatz

I used the Jefferson 10 yr and the ER10. Tried all kinds of variations. No luck

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amg
Kentucky Vintage XO might be a good candidate for proof maintenance - it clocks in at 107 and is 10yrs old IIRC.

You're thinking of Pure Kentucky XO and it hasn't been 10 years old for quite some time. The last NAS bottle I had didn't have much rye flavor to it, more of a BF "neutral" profile; not sure it would be a good fit.

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El Vino

Tried the ER/WP at 2:1, but instead of Barterhouse (which I don't have) I added a glug of OWA (hey its Van Winkle - if I'm are going to add a bourbon might as well try a wheated bourbon). Results are promising on the enjoyment scale. Since I have never had VWFRR, I could not say if it is even close.

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sailor22

Pretty sure VWFRR old Bernheim juice that was tanked at 18yrs. Probably was not a particularly high rye mash bill and the rye notes are almost overtaken by the wood.

First thought would be ER10 with just a very small amount of V23 Rye would probably come close. Those are both a little hard to find and are so good on their own it would be a shame to use them in a vat that may not work.

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El Vino

It's been two days in the decanter, and I have to say the mix of EP/WP/OWA(glug) is really singing. Solid nose. Bourbon/rye notes complementing one another very nicely. Nice finish too. Please: someone else try this combo for independent verification.

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whiskeyobsessive
Pretty sure VWFRR old Bernheim juice that was tanked at 18yrs. Probably was not a particularly high rye mash bill and the rye notes are almost overtaken by the wood.

First thought would be ER10 with just a very small amount of V23 Rye would probably come close. Those are both a little hard to find and are so good on their own it would be a shame to use them in a vat that may not work.

I think the tanked stuff is about 50/50 bernheim/medley. The original 13 was, in fact, 13 years old, was medley and was bear identical to the (IMO) glorious Hirsch 13. At least that is what JVW indicated on this board years ago.

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