Orphan Barrels

[cowdery]

If you've tried any of the Orphan Barrels, what do you think? I just mean the whiskey itself. How do you like it? How does it compare to other whiskeys you drink. If you have a bottle or have consumed a lot of one of them, what do you like about it?

I've only had the Lost Prophet and found nothing to like about it, but I'll admit to being prejudiced, not against Diageo products but against most bourbons and ryes past 15-years-old. I really want to know what other people think, especially people who drink a steady diet of very olds.

I'm interested in opinions about all of them: Old Blowhard, Barterhouse, Rhetoric, and Lost Prophet.

The next one, by the way, is a 15-year-old bourbon from New Bernheim called Forged Oak.

[jvd99]

I had the Barterhouse back when it was first released and didn't care for it. I thought it was a little thin and under-proofed. The price is not objectively unreasonable for a bourbon of that age, but still not worth it for me for subjective reasons. I passed on every other iteration in this series because I was extremely put off by the marketing and lack of transparency by Diageo.

[tanstaafl2]

Have tried the first three. Didn't care that much for Barterhouse from a new bottle but found it tended to open up a decent amount with time when compared to a half filled bottle that had been open for several months already. Was a bit surprising how different it was. The Rhetoric from a newly opened bottle was drier and more woody/ashy and seemed a bit closed like the newly opened Barterhouse. Perhaps it will improve with time as well.

I was quite surprised by the Old Blowhard which I fully expected to dislike. Had more sweetness, vanilla and fruit flavors than either the Barterhouse or Rhetoric and while dry and somewhat woody it was not so heavy as to make it unpleasant. This was back in August and I don't think I have tried any of them again recently.

I will probably take a shot on a bottle of Lost Prophet just for the heck of it as well as the Forged Oak if I see it and the price is tolerable.

[kjbeggs]

I tried all three of them SBS. I was surprised by the Old Blowhard. It had more going for it than just woodiness. (I do like the occasional woody bourbon for the record). I expected the wood to overpower everything else, but there was more flavor to it than I expected.

Moving on to the Barterhouse, I found it more balanced than the OBH. Still some wood, but the other flavors (I need to pour them all again to get specific) stood out more. I deemed it superior to OBH.

Lastly, I tried Rhetoric. My initial reaction was that it was now my favorite of the three, but another pour of Barterhouse, put it back in the lead. The Rhetoric seemed thinner by comparison.

I'm glad I have them all, and will probably get LP and FO as well, as long as the prices don't get any crazier.

In hindsight, my money would have been better spent on more bottles of Bookers 25th though.

[RWBadley]

I have not tasted the Old Blowhard, but I do have both the Rhetoric and Barterhouse. I quite like them both, but find the Barterhouse has been better for me time after time.

Here the Barterhouse is about $80 plus the taxman. At this price point I do still like it, and may end up getting one for the bunker while it's still available. I wish it were $50, it would be a no brainer...

Cheers,

RW

[dSculptor]

We did a SbS of all of them a few weeks back, my 1st choice was the BH, then OB and rhetoric last. I like 'em all , but I do enjoy the olds. I would buy me another bottle of the BH for $90 for a 20 yr.old, I think it's not a bad deal. Just for kicks, because they were all sitting there I did a small vat of all 3... pretty good! But I think the BH was still the best on it's own, hard to remember, may have to go at again in the near future.

[BourbonGuy]

This is so interesting to me as a newcomer. As I am sure everyone here knows, John Hansell seemed to like it when compaired to other older bourbons. (maybe that is the key). It is rare on Long Island to find a bar pouring this to try it before you buy it. So I have to wonder, do my tastes run closer to Col Cowdery or John?

Edited December 12, 2014 by BourbonGuy
grammer

[RWBadley]

My memory is hazy going back this far, but years ago I had a fair amount of the AH Hirsch 16 and 20yo. The Barterhouse reminded me quite heavily of the 20yo. Not sure of why, but it touched that nerve.

I think as an extra aged bourbon it's quite a treat, especially after the bottle opens up a bit. I'd suggest if you find one priced reasonable to go ahead and pick it up.

[jeffrey r]

I bought two Barterhouse at $80, and one Rhetoric at $90. Now, I am finding Barterhouse at $70, which is more compelling obviously, but I am not stocking up per se. Bottom line, I like both Barterhouse and Rhetoric, and think they are good bourbons at somewhat fair prices at their general price point. Again, at $70, I think Barterhouse is even more compelling. I think they have each gained something nice from their extra years in the barrel, and in a world of increasingly expensive bottles of bourbon, and decreasing age (or losing age statements) of releases, I am all for good-tasting well-aged bourbons under $100.

[TunnelTiger]

Love the Barterhouse and the Rhetoric. have open bottles of each and back ups in the bunker. Maybe us old guys like old things.

[Paddy]

I've only tried the OBH, and found it enjoyable. It, as expected, was dry and heavily wood influenced. To my surprise, I did not feel that the wood overpowered the fruit and vanilla sweetness, as Bruce already pointed out. In this case, I actually felt that it helped add a layer of depth and complexity that balanced the tamed spice and heat.

Definately an older musty bourbon that one, with any experience, could not fail to discern (in a good way).

[flahute]

I have bottles of both OBH and BH. When in the mood, I do like them, but find that the wood influence is usually not what I have a taste for. They both reminded me of the Jefferson's Presidential Select 21yr that I had. I've also picked up the same flavor note in some other old whiskies that were comprised of re-purposed barrels. I believe this flavor is a result of heavy filtration that's required to make some of these drinkable. (I have no hard evidence, just making connections from what I've read). This led me to believe that I just didn't like the older wood influenced bourbons. Then I tried a Willett 23 yr old bourbon that was only 101.? proof despite being unfiltered and right out of the barrel. Very different flavor that I liked. It's all about barrel placement and management. I don't think the Orphan Barrels were managed. Someone just decided one day that they ought to do something with them.

[KyleCBreese]

I don't think the Orphan Barrels were managed. Someone just decided one day that they ought to do something with them.

[garbanzobean]

I've tried Barterhouse and Blowhard. Both were nice, but I suspect some heavy handed filtering. OBH shared some traits with OFBB13, but I don't think it did them as well at twice the age and 3-5 times the price. Barter house seems like it plays better with some air time.

All in all, I don't think they are a ripoff as a one time purchase to learn about overaged bourbon. Or if you like oak bombs. Personally, I think they should tank most of the stuff over 20 and blend it sparingly into bourbon from their new distillery. I think it will result in a nicer final product.

[JDSmith619]

I have BH and put it in the mix quite often. I enjoy it when Im looking for something with a stronger wood presence (not overly strong, enjoyable) and find it to be sweeter for a 20yr.

That being said, I bought into the hype way too early and bought 3 bottles of the first run. IMHO, its not worth $80 shelf price AT ALL. For the $$ there are a number of pours I now know I enjoy more; 4RSB, ECBP, EC12, KCSB, Bookers all quickly come to mind and I can find them regularly without any problem (ECBP is a little harder).

[The Black Tot]

I've been pretty vocal on here about my enjoyment of Old Blowhard. I think it's got one of my favorite finishes out there - personal preference. Everyone tastes differently, as we all know around here, but I do think some of the phrases that I've read such as "wet rope" are extreme enough to be considered unfair. I've been a sailor for 16 years - I've tasted wet rope (by accident), and I've tasted Old Blowhard (on purpose). I have access to wet rope squeezings - anyone who wants to try to prove they can't tell the difference blind is welcome to do so in my presence, as long as I get to take video. It's not everyone's cup of tea, and that's great, because it allowed me to stock up. I value it because it's unique.

Barterhouse I don't like, but Mrs Tot does. For me, it was unbalanced in a bad way. But it's been a hit around here for many who have tried it. I have a few bottles around for the Mrs.

The Rhetoric I didn't understand at first, and I thought it was thin and lacking personality. But the more I tried it the more I realized it was nicely balanced, and subtle. There's a place for that, and therefore a place for it on the bar.

I'm not happy about the Orphan Barrel pricing, but they're also pretty unique offerings, and bourbons at 20yrs+ aren't exactly lining up at lower prices. Extinct Old Berheim? I think that's cool. Plus, I like Old Charter, and some of this stuff has been super-aged Old Charter.

In the end I think they're fun to drink, and all three have unique taste profiles. I don't like Diageo or how they run their business and I don't like what they're doing to the whiskey and whisky worlds, and even less what they're doing to the rum world, but they're the owners of these cool and unique bourbons, and I've enjoyed them.

[danz]

If you've tried any of the Orphan Barrels, what do you think? I just mean the whiskey itself. How do you like it? How does it compare to other whiskeys you drink. If you have a bottle or have consumed a lot of one of them, what do you like about it?

...

I tried each of the first three: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?23101-Orphan-Barrel-Lost-Prophet&p=448553&viewfull=1#post448553

As I note in that post, I think there is a lot of batch variation in the Barterhouse and I am interested to hear if anybody has seen any explanation from Diageo about which bottles are in which batches.

My personal bottle of Barterhouse started out terrible, but it mellowed out a lot after a couple weeks of being opened. Now I find it oaky, weathered and muted, but enjoyable. I also think these bottles are very heavily filtered. I do not plan to get more of these: the prices are considerably too high for what they are worth to me. I also think I prefer a younger, sweeter bourbon profile.

I would note that, although I do not love my personal bottle of Barterhouse, Gary Gillman liked it a great deal: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?23127-Best-Bourbon-you-tried-this-year-2014&p=449121&viewfull=1#post449121. I also have him to thank for getting me to try it a few more times as it has opened up after being opened.

-Dan Z.

[dcbt]

A question and an anecdote... Question: whatever happened to Strongbox? Was that renamed Lost Prophet or Forged Oak? Or is that still in the pipeline as well?

Anecdote: I went to lunch this week with a colleague I didn't know very well, and we stumbled upon bourbon as a topic of conversation. He wasn't an enthusiast, but was asking my favorites, most of which I could tell he had never heard of. (MM was his bottle of choice.) Then he asked me about the Orphan Bottles out of the blue without me mentioning them. Which one was my favorite, where to get them, etc. I have all three but haven't opened any of them, so I could only tell him where I got them, not which one was my favorite. But I thought it was interesting that a relatively novice bourbon drinker was so interested in the Orphans. Their marketing much be working, and my colleague may very well be Diageo's target consumer, but I can't remember seeing any marketing other than press releases.

[silverfish]

I had the Barterhouse back when it was first released and didn't care for it. I thought it was a little thin and under-proofed. The price is not objectively unreasonable for a bourbon of that age, ...

[brettckeen]

Barterhouse was decent enough, when i tried Rhetoric at barrel strength at the diageo event it was decent but once proofed down for bottling I found it chalky and not my thing. Old Blowhard fit its name well, like licking a wooden ruler with a bit of whiskey spilled on it. Not my thing.

[PaulO]

... But I thought it was interesting that a relatively novice bourbon drinker was so interested in the Orphans. Their marketing much be working, and my colleague may very well be Diageo's target consumer, but I can't remember seeing any marketing other than press releases.

I see these at every store that has at least a modest selection. Sometimes they are in the glass case, or else on the top shelf. I've had clerks point them out to me too.

[CaskStrength77]

I've only tried the Barterhouse, which I happen to enjoy. In fact, its been awhile, I'll probably pour myself one tonight! I passed on Old Blowhard & Rhetoric, their price was just too high for me. I'll only go 100+ for something special, such as the Angel's Envy Cask Strength I picked up last year. I mean, if I can grab a WFE 9yr bourbon for under $75, why would I pay $95 for Rhetoric? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[cowdery]

Exactly. I always wondered if it was such good whiskey, wouldn't the original owners of the barrels have just bottled it? Maybe it wouldn't fit their product line, but it certainly could have been bottled as a limited release.

Diageo is the original owner. It has owned them all along, in that they were all made by one of the companies that became Diageo, except Lost Prophet, which was contract-made for a Diageo predecessor at a distillery that Diageo predecessor used to own.

[burghguy]

I have open on my bar both a Barterhouse and a Rhetoric. I am no bourbon expert, and I usually like my bourbon in the 7-11 year range, but I really enjoy both of these. I intend to seek out the Lost Prophet also when makes its way to SC. I am not a fan of big, oaky bourbons, but I found the Rhetoric very drinkable with a nice finish. The Barterhouse got better the longer the open bottle sat on my bar. I bunkered back-ups of both.

[TunnelTiger]

I've only tried the Barterhouse, which I happen to enjoy. In fact, its been awhile, I'll probably pour myself one tonight! I passed on Old Blowhard & Rhetoric, their price was just too high for me. I'll only go 100+ for something special, such as the Angel's Envy Cask Strength I picked up last year. I mean, if I can grab a WFE 9yr bourbon for under $75, why would I pay $95 for Rhetoric? It just doesn't make sense to me.

I think it's because we all have different tastes which is a good thing and in my case I'm not fond of paying high prices for bottles from NDP's.

HW and SA are the exceptions but that's just me.

I may not be fond of everything that Diageo does but at least they did make it and are now offering it.