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BOTM 3/16: Weller 12 Year

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Charlutz
2 hours ago, Kepler said:

Charlutz,

You might want to re-read what I wrote:  "Same recipe, different aging "

Is that not clear enough?

 Not when you then proceed to completely discount everything else that makes them different. 

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Quantum
On 5/4/2016 at 6:27 PM, Kepler said:


Btw, I never said that Pappy wasn't  much much better than Weller 12, I just said it was essentially the same product with the same recipe.  Obviously the aging process is what separates the run of the mill W12/OWA from the high end Van Winkle products.  Presumably, the same goes for Stagg vs Eagle Rare (same mash bill)...

 

Having the same recipe and being "essentially the same product" are completely different. What it tastes like coming out of the bottle is the only thing that matters when comparing the end product, and WSR/OWA/W12 are very different products than anything in the pappy line. That is why I dont like calling the W12/OWA blend "PMP". They don't taste similar, so it is a poor mans idea of useful labeling.

 

Warehouse location and aging time are about the only controlled variable in the "aging process". Once they are aged, barrel selection and blending are not insignificant steps. Add all those together, and you end up with completely different products. They may start off the same, but calling them similar products is over simplistic and inaccurate.

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Kepler

You guys are a piece of work! This stuff ain't rocket science, it's just whiskey making! You're overthinking this.

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flahute
2 minutes ago, Kepler said:

You guys are a piece of work! This stuff ain't rocket science, it's just whiskey making! You're overthinking this.

Whiskey from the same run of distillation placed in barrels one after the other and placed in the rickhouse side by side on the same day and aged for the same amount of time can come out tasting very differently. Members of this forum who have participated in barrel picks have experienced this first hand. Master distillers will tell you how significant the barrel is on the final product and purposefully place barrels in certain parts of certain rickhouses to achieve desired results. It's how they do it. So.......if a guy whose last name is Van Winkle can choose where these barrels are place and can pick from the various locations to suit his profile, it's fathomable that his product can be different from the ones that get called Weller. Doesn't mean they are better (and certainly doesn't mean they are worthy of secondary market prices) but it does mean it's possible for them to be different some of the time.

 

Going back a bit......you compare Stagg to ER. One is 10 years old. The other is usually 16 years old. The latter is placed in specific parts of specific warehouses to achieve a particular profile. ER is placed in different places to achieve its profile. Aging and where its aged make a big difference.

 

To say it's essentially the same product with the same recipe as a way of downplaying how it can end up being different is a gross over simplification. 

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Kepler

Flahute, with all due respect, please don't take this wrongly, but I already know all this about bourbon. You don't need to school me, of all people, on the aging process of these bourbons, nor on the significance of it. Please. I'm out. This conversation has devolved into nothing more than a futile and meaningless exercise in semantics, and a huge bore.  Giving this thread back to the bourbon of the month topic.

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flahute
13 hours ago, Kepler said:

Flahute, with all due respect, please don't take this wrongly, but I already know all this about bourbon. You don't need to school me, of all people, on the aging process of these bourbons, nor on the significance of it. Please. I'm out. This conversation has devolved into nothing more than a futile and meaningless exercise in semantics, and a huge bore.  Giving this thread back to the bourbon of the month topic.

Well you know, you're right. Sometimes on the internet (in conversations that span multiple days) one can forget what was said earlier and react to a more recent quote that doesn't contain the full context. I went back to read what you wrote early on and I see what you are saying. Sorry for getting off track.

(I still insist on SB Blend over PMP though :))

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Kepler

It's all good.  Cheers :)

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Harry in WashDC

You guys ought to run for Congress.  You can actually TALK to each other.:D

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WhiskyRI

For those who've been enjoying Weller 12 prior to the current boom - are you noticing a profile shift in the more recent bottlings? Just as OWA lost it's age statement, I wonder if Weller 12 is not getting the same quality barrels as it did in the past. Don't get me wrong I buy it when I can find it (at reasonable prices) but the variation between bottles seems to have grown while at the same time the tasty goodness that is Weller 12 doesn't seem to there quite as much. Has anyone else noticed this?

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mbroo5880i

I thought my last bottle was less enjoyable than in the past. To be honest,  I don't recall how long ago I had bought it.  I would guess 2014 or early 2015. I found a second bottle around the same time that I haven't opened.  I also bought 2 OWAS around the same time. I really enjoyed the one I opened. I haven't opened the other.  I have been drinking Larceny to get my wheated bourbon flx. Weller 12 or OWA are difficult to find in Indy. 

Edited by mbroo5880i

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flahute

I don't have much experience with pre boom Weller 12, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was a shift. Not saying there is, but it would be reasonable if there was.

Pre boom, when it was sitting on the shelf, they had many barrels to choose from and likely mixed in some older barrels because there was no brand target for those older barrels. (Pappy Van Winkle also sat on the shelves then so they had more older barrels than they knew what to do with). 

Now, every last single barrel gets used, even the sub par ones, and they likely get dumped the very day they turn 12. 

This is just speculation, but it's reasonable.

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Flyfish
On 5/10/2016 at 1:31 AM, Kepler said:

Flahute, with all due respect, please don't take this wrongly, but I already know all this about bourbon. You don't need to school me, of all people, on the aging process of these bourbons, nor on the significance of it. Please. I'm out. This conversation has devolved into nothing more than a futile and meaningless exercise in semantics, and a huge bore.  

This back and forth reminds me of Russ whom I met three years ago. He invited me over for some bourbon. Poured some Seagram's. Uncouth lout that I am, I suggested that, although I appreciated his hospitality, Seagram's is not bourbon. "Oh, that's just a technicality," he said. Fortunately, I had just barely enough sense not to engage in a "futile and meaningless" attempt to school him in the difference.  

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DonutsNBourbon

I actually have not seen of nor heard of W12 hitting shelves yet in my area this year.  My last bottle of W12 was not good at all at first pour, but after letting it sit for a few months, it's definitely tasted a lot better.

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mbroo5880i
3 hours ago, Flyfish said:

This back and forth reminds me of Russ whom I met three years ago. He invited me over for some bourbon. Poured some Seagram's. Uncouth lout that I am, I suggested that, although I appreciated his hospitality, Seagram's is not bourbon. "Oh, that's just a technicality," he said. Fortunately, I had just barely enough sense not to engage in a "futile and meaningless" attempt to school him in the difference.  

Of course, since there was no difference in his mind, you probably didn't need to feel too bad if you mixed it with soda. I know I wouldn't have.  :-)

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MTNBourbon

Nice stuff. Have not seen it around in quite awhile, here in GJ.

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OldDrinker1978

Finally got me a new bottle for an acceptable price. This stuff is as great as I remember it to be. Very easy to drink without being thin at all. There's this peachy fruitiness, paired with vanilla and buttery caramel vs the smoky nuttines of the lingering woody finish. So lovely. One of my faves for sure.

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fenderbender4

Wish I could find a bottle in MN.  Not even sure if there have been any recent shipments around here.

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trufunk

I always try to keep a bottle on hand of this and OWA.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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CohibaJoe

All this talk is making me thirsty....Cheers!!!

 

Anyway....I pickup a case last September and another 15 bottles. Case is sealed but I see no issues

with the 15----OH.....1 of the 14 Bottles compared to the another pickup of 1 early 2015.

Wells12b.jpg

Wells12a.jpg

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GeeTen
On 6/26/2016 at 10:36 PM, CohibaJoe said:

All this talk is making me thirsty....Cheers!!!

 

Anyway....I pickup a case last September and another 15 bottles. Case is sealed but I see no issues

with the 15----OH.....1 of the 14 Bottles compared to the another pickup of 1 early 2015.

Wells12b.jpg

Wells12a.jpg

 

That's where all the W12 went, eh?  On top of a case of 2002 Phelps Insignia, too.  Can I come to your house??????   :wub:

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BigPapa
On June 26, 2016 at 9:36 PM, CohibaJoe said:

All this talk is making me thirsty....Cheers!!!

 

Anyway....I pickup a case last September and another 15 bottles. Case is sealed but I see no issues

with the 15----OH.....1 of the 14 Bottles compared to the another pickup of 1 early 2015.

Wells12b.jpg

Wells12a.jpg

Where on earth do you find that much at one location let alone the store selling that much to one person. 

Min Minnesota there was a lottery for one bottle at my local Liqour store .

Edited by BigPapa

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meadeweber

Probably Texas.  They seem to get the Weller 12.

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MTNBourbon

Have not seen Weller 12 around here (GJ) for months.

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Kepler
On 6/29/2016 at 2:03 PM, meadeweber said:

Probably Texas.  They seem to get the Weller 12.

I'm in Texas and I too haven't seen it in months.  I used to see it from time to time, here or there, not most places.  But no more.

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CohibaJoe
On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 3:03 PM, meadeweber said:

Probably Texas.  They seem to get the Weller 12.

BINGO....

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