beer

[kitzg]

In the U.S. Heineken is now the Number Two import beer -- second to Corona. Heineken continued to go after golf with an upper income, upper age crowd while Corona (and I am not a fan of either beer) went after a young hip crowd. Corona won.

[Gillman]

Interesting, thanks. I believe Heineken never issued a light version of its famous lager bier. Maybe this is what they need to overtake Corona and reclaim the number one spot. There are beers I admire more than those two but sometimes a cold Heineken is just right, and same for Corona.

Gary

[kitzg]

As you stated earlier it seems to be marketing that made Corona number one. I doubt Heineken Light would be a hit vs. Corona. My students see Heineken as an "old man's beer" and Corona as a "beer for someone like me" (meaing 21 - 25 year olds).

Corona markets as an attitude -- relaxation. Very smart in our world. While Golf is a form or relaxation and despite Tiger Woods it is not necessarily seen as a 'relaxation attitude.'

Anyway, that is my humble opinion based on following beers in the US for quite a few years.

Thanks for the open dialogue.

I must say I've not tried Heineken recently enough to have noticed that the skunky taste is gone. I'll give it a try. I do enjoy good European lagers (as well as good ales). However, my new "favorite Saturday night pub" has Hooegaarden, Hacker-Schorr, and Boddington's on tap with a special that night.

[pepcycle]

Isn't Amstel Light nothing more than Heineken Light?

[pepcycle]

That clear Corona bottle makes for a wonderfully skunky flavor. In a recent blind tasting of 15 commercially available beers, Corona was mistaken for Heineken by a large group of participants. What's the cure for Skunky beer? Disguise it with Lime!!!!

Go Figure

[cowdery]

In the U.S., Amstel Light is, effectively, Heineken's light beer entry. In Europe, however, Amstel (not light) is a brand in its own right. When I was in Greece in 1995, that was the main beer there and made locally. We drank a lot of it and it was quite good, as lagers go.

When in the Netherlands, I'm happy to drink Heineken, although everything tastes good when you're smoking the local bud (except, of course, Bud). Over here, I don't mind the imported Heineken, although if I want an imported lager I'm more inclined toward Becks or, best of all, Pilsner Urquell. However, in Prague I prefer Staropremen, which is available here but, for some reason, doesn't seem to travel as well as Pilsner Urquell, probably because it doesn't do the volume. Over there, I would almost always be drinking draught.

Ah, fond beer memories.

[Gillman]

I agree, regarding the Amstel Light, in the sense that Heineken and Amstel are brands of the same corporate owner. But from a North American brand franchise point of view, it is not correct to say Amstel Light is "Heineken Light". Not 1% (I estimate) of those who drink either brand in America know they are owned by the same company. Heineken should do a line extension to Light for the flagship (in North America) Heineken brand. It would attract those aging Heineken drinkers who want to ease up a bit and perhaps attract that younger crowd that is wedded to Corona (and the new and rather unnecessary Corona Light).

Re Staropremen, I heard it is brewed under license in England and that adjuncts (brewing sugars in this case) are added. Every time I had it in London it tasted not right, like an adjunct beer. I am sure it is great in its East European homeland but unlike Urquel it does not transplant well (of course the Urquel we get is still brewed in its homeland, but so are countless German and other Northern European lager beers and Urquel smokes them all).

Gary

[tdelling]

> That clear Corona bottle makes for a wonderfully skunky flavor.

Actually, the bottle isn't the culprit this time.

Many beers, including Corona, are made not by adding actual

hops, but rather with "reduced hop extract", which is hop

extract that's been treated with sodium borohydride in order

to make it skunk-proof.

Much beer is handled poorly (sits around for a long time,

undergoes temperature swings), which is the main cause of

bad beer... but that's not the manufacturer's fault.

Tim Dellinger,

...Corona drinker

[cowdery]

Gary, we are of exactly the same mind on these subjects. I did not know that the Staropremen we get here is brewed in England from a different formula, but that explains a lot. When I have purchased it here, in addition to it not tasting as good as I remember it, I frequently have gotten bottles that were completely flat. Now if I want a Czech beer I exclusively buy Urquell.

You are right about Heineken and a Heineken Light probably would succeed in the U.S., but their strategy, wrongheaded though it may be, seems to be to use Amstel as their light beer entry. While you are correct that few U.S. consumers are aware of the common corporate parentage, it does give the company a product for the Light beer consumer and one that has been quite successful. I think at this point their fear would be that a Heineken Light would simply cannibalize Amstel Light. Another way of thinking about it would be in lieu of a Heineken Light, where would a Heineken drinker seeking a light beer be most likely to go? Miller Light? Bud Light? Or Amstel Light, even without knowledge of the common corporate parentage?

[tdelling]

> In the U.S., Amstel Light is, effectively, Heineken's light beer entry.

The funny thing is that in the Dutch Caribbean, there is a beer that

is lighter then Amstel Light, called Amstel Bright!

Tim Dellinger

[kitzg]

I agree that there is likely a market for Heineken light. Although I'd guess they surely have tested the concept and have a reason for not introducing it.

[tdelling]

> although if I want an imported lager I'm more inclined toward Becks or, best

> of all, Pilsner Urquell. However, in Prague I prefer Staropremen, which is

> available here but, for some reason, doesn't seem to travel as well as Pilsner

> Urquell

I try and try, but I've never in my life had a Pilsner Urquell or a

Staroprammen that didn't taste like skunky, spoiled crap. In my

experience, neither of them can survive the voyage over.

Tim Dellinger

[ratcheer]

Corona? Why don't they just drink water?

Tim

[ratcheer]

Yes, Pilsner Urqell is one of my favorites, too. The only thing I consistently like better is Bass Ale.

But, I like Bud, so what do I know?

Tim

[gr8erdane]

I got to try Staropremen at Christmas that my aunt brought back after spending two years in Prague and found it to be rather like Heineken. She said that her preference was draft Budweiss, which is imported under the name Czechvar here due to copyright battles with AB. I'm trying to get the owner of the liquor store up the street to get some for me to try but most of the big online stores want 10 bucks for a six pack which is a bit much for beer IMHO. I've tried the Pilsner Urquell but for the life of me can't remember what it tasted like. Must not have left a good impression.

[Gillman]

Maybe, Chuck, but I always thought Amstel Light went after the young urban market. Heineken is more of a mainstream established (prosperous Middle American) brand. I'd have thought drinkers in that group worried about calories or the beer being "heavy" would migrate naturally to a light Heineken, i.e., no or little cannibalization with Amstel Light would occur. Maybe not though: Heineken is a famously successful international company, and I'm sure they thought this through. Maybe.

I have some notes on the Staropremen situation and will forward to the board.

Gary

[Gillman]

No, Tim, maybe you never drank Urquel in the can. I agree that in the green bottle, it is always (in my experience) light struck to a degree. This of course is not true of the can and this is a beer that moves fast in most markets. It has the classic malty Moravian taste offset by the equally classic Saaz spicy hop taste. A fine beer, and one of the few that not only is good in the can but is better that way than in bottle.

Gary

[cowdery]

Go back and try some Urquell--readily available for a reasonable price--before you jump through too many hoops to try the Czechvar. They are all pretty similar and, you're right, a lot like Heineken.

[cowdery]

My father shares your opinion. He recoils if I even mention them.

[Gillman]

For those interested in Staropramen, see Roger Protz' article on the English-brewed version highlighted on the main page of his website, www.protzonbeer.com. It is the one called, "Something Lost in the Translation". Mr. Protz is an internationally known consumer authority on beer. He is a stickler for stylistic integrity. I find he goes a bit too far in trying to show this beer has strayed from its roots but he gives a lot of interesting information. The beer I had in England tasted the same as the one we get in Ontario. So the one exported here may be made in England. Protz notes that Interbrew says it uses brewing syrups in the beer whether made in Prague or England. Therefore, I think the palates of the Czech and English-brewed versions likely are quite similar despite some (inevitable) production differences. If the one imported to Ontario is made in Prague, that would be some evidence of that. I will check the bottle the next time I am at the LCBO.

I prefer the other internationally available Czech beers to Staropramen such as Pilsener Urquel (in the can) and Czechvar, and there are others. There is interesting information given in the same website on some of these other brews.

Gary

[cowdery]

And speaking for Heineken, this just in from Just-Drinks:

Heineken and Groupe SEB have teamed up to create a draught beer system to be used at home. After a successful pilot in Switzerland, the BeerTender, consisting of an appliance and keg, will first be launched in the Netherlands and many countries are to follow.

The BeerTender system brings a new technology that delivers draught beer for home consumption. The BeerTender appliance keeps the compact 4-litre keg at the right temperature and in the most optimal condition for a period of three weeks after the first beer has been drawn.

In a statement, Heineken chairman Thony Ruys said: “Innovation brings growth to the Heineken brand. BeerTender is aimed to do just that. It offers the real draught beer experience at the consumers' home.

“I'm very happy that we have been able to combine the technical expertise of Groupe SEB and Heineken's expertise on draught beer.â€

Thierry de La Tour d'Artaise, chairman of Groupe SEB said: “Heineken and Krups form a perfect match of international innovative brands, well known for their quality and expertise. Our group has always created new products expected by consumers. We are convinced of the success of the BeerTender system, a joint alliance of innovation in small domestic appliances and the know-how of the most famous brewer.â€

Groupe SEB will be responsible for the production, marketing and future development of the BeerTender appliances. Heineken will further develop the kegs and take the lead in the production and distribution of the kegs.

[tdelling]

> Heineken and Groupe SEB have teamed up to create a draught beer system to be

> used at home. After a successful pilot in Switzerland, the BeerTender,

> consisting of an appliance and keg, will first be launched in the Netherlands

> and many countries are to follow.

The use of the 4 liter keg is brilliant! "Kegerators" have long been a

thing of awe wonder that dedicated swill drinkers invest in... but they

take up a great deal of space. I've seen plenty of do-it-yourself versions

for full size kegs, but I'd never thought of putting one together for

smaller sized kegs. The smaller space requirement (and presumably

lower cost) makes this thing much more purchasable.

Tim Dellinger

[aaron]

It's just my opinion, but if I'm going to invest in a draught-beer setup at home, it's certainly not going to be for Heineken. I don't want to come off sounding like a beer snob, but it's been my experience that Americans drink (and, moreover, even seem to appreciate) generally mediocre beers. I personally can't stand the taste of regular Heineken--however, the oft-overlooked Heineken Dark is itself a pretty decent beer. I don't understand the mass-appeal of Corona, either...I mean, could it get any more watered down? Oh wait--Corona Light. Nevermind.

I don't know what to attribute it to--this country's collective draw to sub-par beers--is it the advertising? Or perhaps that people don't care to take the time to broaden their tastes and refine their palates? Whatever the case, it saddens me.

I myself rarely drink domestic beers, at least the ubiquitous staples like Bud, Michelob, Coors, Miller, etc. Lately I've been drinking a lot of Stone Brew beers (Arrogant Bastard Ale & Stone IPA), which is actually kind of a hassle, seeing as I have to travel out of state to buy them (owing to SC's wonderful restrictions on high-alcohol beers.) I also find myself picking up Sierra Nevada (Pale & Porter), Sammy Smith (Taddy Porter & Oatmeal Stout), and Anchor Steam quite a bit. My standard fallback, though, is Guiness. I just can't seem to get enough of the stuff.

[tommy]

My beer standards aren't nearly as high as my bourbon standards. I like Sierra Nevada and Pabst Blue Ribbon.

[bobbyc]

I'm with you Otho, I have 2 hats. When my Bourbon hat is on,that's one thing, Put on the beer hat and there's nothing they have brewed that I can't drink and enjoy.