beer

[jeff]

Sierra Nevada's Porter has become one of my favorite beers lately. Their IPA is quite good as well

[Paradox]

Again, this past Christmas, I went out and bought the Saranac 12 beers sampler pack. I was particularly taken by their White Belgian ale or lager I forget which it was. Oddly enough Jeff, I like their Pale Ale but their India Pale Ale just didn't sit good with me. Man was that bitter as hell! I was looking around at Saranac's website, and unfortunately they do not have a description for every beer they make. I wanted to read again about the ones I really liked in that set... There was a caramel porter and that too was great.

Anyways, I'm not a regular beer drinker, but does anyone know if any other companies (Saranac included) produce variety packs such as this throughout the year? I do not drink beer often but when I do I want a vast majority and buy a 6 pack of something doesn't do it for me. I know Michelob also makes a sampler pack with 2 free glasses around Christmas every year. It includes their speciality beers. Any info is appreciated as always.

[jbutler]

It's remarkable to me that you can purchase Sierra Nevada's products in Kentucky. That brewery seems to be a genuine success story.

I can remember driving to Chico with my buddies just so we could drink the stuff, as distribution didn't extend 80 miles to the south.

[jeff]

Mark,

I know that Goose Island has a 12 bottle sampler pack similar to Saranac that you have tried. I like most of their beers and they are relatively inexpensive when compared to the other so-called micro-breweries. I really like their "Hex Nut" brown ale.

BTW, when does the term micro-brewery cease to apply to a smaller brewery? Seems to me that some of them produce more than I would have expected from a smaller operation. Or, more likely, is it all just marketing jargon?

[jeff]

I think they showed up at the Liquor Barn sometime last year and seem to have become quite popular around here. I just hope they don't fall victim to their own success.

[Paradox]

Thanks Jeff, I'll have to see if my distributor here can get it! I just went out and against my wishes was forced to get the Sam Adam's winter collection sampler. I had it 2 Christmas' ago and liked it but Sam Adam's is jsut too damn expensive. But since it was all they had in a sampler pack, I got it. Well, they did have this beers of the world pack but you want to talk about overpriced!

I too have wondered when a brewery is no longer a micro brewery. I don't know but maybe they are still considered microbreweries since many of these 'concoctions' are only produced during certain times of the year and not year round? Your guess is as good as mine.

[jeff]

Mark, I almost forgot. Check out Goose Island's web-site. They have some nice interactive features and they go into detail about all of their beers.

[pepcycle]

Mark,

Michelob has a pretty nifty Assortment pack. I got it at Sam's Wholesale warehouse. It was a 12 pack with 2 of 6 different products including a Marzen style and a Black and Tan. It also came with two pilsner-style glasses and was less than $15 bucks. The beers were toned down versions of the traditional styles. I attached a review from another site.

Anheuser-Busch has produced a new marzen, or "March" beer, under the aegis of its Michelob Specialty Ales & Lagers 12-pack sampler. The beer is a stylistic revival of one of the company's first specialty offerings, Anheuser Marzen, fielded in the early 1990s. The former Marzen was much sought-after, but was only sold in test markets. The new Michelob Marzen is an all-malt beer, with 5% alcohol by volume. "We're excited to launch Michelob Marzen as part of the Michelob specialty ales and lagers winter sampler pack," said Steve Bagwell, vice president, premium-plus brands for Anheuser-Busch, "Specialty beers are extremely popular during the winter months, and Michelob Marzen offers consumers something new and different to help celebrate the holiday season." The sampler pack will also include bottles of Michelob, Michelob Amber Bock, Michelob Honey Lager, Michelob Black & Tan and Michelob Hefeweizen.

COPYRIGHT 2000 Business Journals, Inc.

COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group

[Paradox]

Thanks as well Ed! I've had that sampler pack 2 years running now and I love it. The glasses were a bit nicer this year (2003) than the ones they included in 2002. I have to say I enjoyed all 6 of those brews, but in particular the honey lager, Marzen, Amber Bock and Hefeweizen. I'm not too big a fan of Black and Tans, but the Michelob one I enjoy more than others I have had. Oddly enough the regular Michelob was the one I didn't like nor dislike.

I so wish other companies would begin producing these variety packs, and for the ones who do they need to make them more often! I'm definately going to be on the lookout for Jeff's suggestion of Goose Island. I'm going to begin looking now and see if the Brooklyn Brewery makes a variety pack. Now that breweries products I should be able to find around here, or so one would like to think!

[Paradox]

While jsut browsing the site, I figured let me give a quick check to see if Sma's has this. Sure enough they do, and at a nice price of $12.99 for a 12 bottle variety pack. I figured hell, let me see the shiping on this... $20!! Oh well, I'll jsut have to hope my place can get it.

[Barrel_Proof]

The incredibly fine ales brewed by Stone Brewing have also made their way from California to Kentucky. I had a Stone IPA this past weekend and thought it one of the best beers I have ever had. I first learned of this San Diego County brewer from HiTime in Costa Mesa. Now, the Liquor Barns in Louisville and Lexington carry the entire line, including their Arrogant Bastard Ale and Ruination IPA.

[Gillman]

Yeah, Sierra Nevada is one of the success stories of the micro beer movement, and the success is well-deserved. Their Pale Ale was given 4 stars in Jackson's earliest books, ie. from the brewery's earliest days (early 80's). The very first micro in the modern era, I don't know if you recall it, Jim, was New Albion, also from the northern part of California. I visited S.F. and Sausalito at the end of the 70's and searched for the beer but even though the odd sign for it was still hanging the beer was gone, a victim of undercapitalisation and being ahead of its time. In Hopland there is a brewpub that carries on New Albion's tradition, it acquired the yeast and some of the staff from the defunct brewery and is still going strong today. Can't recall the name offhand, I believe it is in the Sierra foothills butI am quite sure it is in Hopland (where hops haven't been grown for many years now but it is a neat home for one of America's pioneering mini-breweries).

Gary

[jeff]

I don't recall seeing that brand in Lexington Cliff, but I'll check again this weekend.

[jbutler]

Gary,

The brewery you are thinking of is Mendocino Brewing Company, famous primarily for their "Red Tail Ale". Hopland is on the 101 corridor ~100 miles north of SF. The hop industry there is long gone, but if you enjoy fume blanc, it's a happening place.

There was a time in the not so distant past that the only place you could get their brew on tap was at the brewery itself. That's changed, but there's still nowhere quit like the source. I'm particularly fond of their Blue Heron pale ale, my all-time favorite in the IPA style.

[Paradox]

Not knowing crap about beer I've got a question... It seems quite a few of you love IPA's. When I had one from Saranac I could not stand it due to it being overly bitter. Is this a characteristic of all IPA's? If so, I think I need to stand clear but if not I may give another brand a try.

I did have a regular pale ale from Saranac and loved it... Just the IPA didn't do it for me. Thanks guys

[jbutler]

The IPA (India Pale Ale)style is very heavily hopped Mark. I don't think I'd describe the flavor as bitter, but I understand what component you are referring to. Try several from different breweries before writing it off, you may find one you enjoy.

[Gillman]

Thanks, Jim. The Red Tail Ale is very good, kind of a combo of the best of English and American influences in brewing. It is available on the East Coast, made now by a brewery either owned or under license to Mendocino. Something tells me this brewery is located in Saratoga Springs (locale that, for non-bibulous reasons, will forever be in Gary Gillman's rather rueful memory. Why? I missed a legendary show there by The Who in 1971 - by one day).

Gary

[Gillman]

I agree and would add, some IPAs are hopped heavily with American-grown varieties. These hops, in large quantities, tend to have a strong "piny" or "grapefruity" taste that even many beer fans find off-putting. Try an IPA that uses English hops. Many brewed in America import English Fuggles or Goldings which have quite a different flavour, more soft and earthy or sometimes flowery. Whereas Cascades, the classic West Coast hop, can be very powerful, depending on how it is used. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale famously uses Cascades, and it is a kind of IPA, but the brewery gets the balance right, it is a great beer.

Gary

[Paradox]

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale famously uses Cascades, and it is a kind of IPA

Maybe that explains why when I was living in CA furing my AF days I never understood what everyone saw in Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I just didn't like the taste for some reason... Hey, after enjoying bourbons that are usually $20 and above, I'm glad my taste in beers tends to gravitate towards the cheap!

[Barrel_Proof]

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is, in my view, the standard against which all nationally distributed micro-brewed ales are to be judged. There are others that are a bit better, but you have to work to find them. They got this one right in Chico and they haven't messed with it, thankfully. Their annual holiday Celebration Ale is almost always better, but the Pale is always available, nearly everywhere, and always top quality. I rate it as the No. 1 nationally available beer.

[pepcycle]

This may be beating a dead horse, but IPA is traditionally overhopped and bitter. Historical info suggests that the oils and acids in hops act as preservatives. When India was a colony of the British empire, beer was shipped from England. The heavily hopped varieties survived the trip and became a recognized style. Some IPA's take it to the extreme with dry hopping, like the Rogue Ales. Others are mere suggestions of the style like the Oregon Brewing Co.

IPA style is hopped to the point of dry bitterness with less of the aromatic hops signature in the finish. Pale ales are a completely different animal and generally refer to the pale color and mild hops signature.

Just my two cents.

[cowdery]

Good point, though, to distinguish between the Pale Ale and India Pale Ale styles, which sound similar but actually have little in common.

[Gillman]

Well, this opens a large topic. The issue of style is a slippery slope. Michael Jackson established a taxonomy in 1977 in his landmark World Guide To Beer. It has been influential on consumer perceptions following the adoption, mostly by new-generation microbreweries, of Michael's classification. Until his book there were no precise, generally accepted definitions of styles such as Pale Ale and India Pale Ale. To a large degree one can argue that is still the case. One brewer's IPA might be very bitter, another's might be less so, another's might tend to the sweet or even bland. The descriptors even historically were always used loosely. Brewers' examples tended to shade into what are now thought of as different styles. We in Canada have had for generations Keith's India Pale Ale which is milder in palate than any U.S. Pale Ale I know. Many current British IPA's are not in fact highly bitter, e.g., Sam Smith's India Ale and the IPAs of the highly regarded Fuller or Marston. One would think these makers, all of which have functioned since the 1800's at least, would know the tradition of IPA, or part of it..

So when some brewers here make "hop monsters" and claim that is the true IPA, I remain skeptical. No one today knows exactly how IPA was confected, or tasted, way back when. See Thom Thomlinson's classic two part article on IPA's history at www.brewingtechniques.com. It answers some questions but raises many new ones!. American IPAs, just as American Pale Ales, tend today to be more (much more) assertive than their English counterparts, that much is true. It is quite plausible in this light to say Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is a kind of IPA but one can argue that even within a national brewing tradition old or new. The hop monsters that claim the title IPA in America today may not be representative of what most IPA was like in the 1800's (e.g., those were shipped originally long distances and used considerable hop infusion but some think the hop character faded over the 5- 6 months it took to ship strong pale ale beer to India).

The last IPA to be made by an old-established U.S. brewer (i.e., by a brewer founded before circa 1980) was the fine Ballantine India Pale Ale. Ballantine's regular ale is still made (by Miller under contract for the owner of the brand) but Ballantine IPA is sadly a memory. Still, I recall it well from the 1970's. It was aromatic and somewhat bitter from Bullion hops but not extravagantly so, certainly nothing in comparison to the big Cascade or Chinook U.S. micro IPAs. I find in memory Ballantine IPA similar to the Best Bitter (the draft version of the Pale Ale style) I buy at one of our local brewpubs here, the estimable Granite Brewery. And this is recalling what an American IPA was like from the pre-micro era (thus with possibly more claim to fidelity to the "original" than the current IPA crop). So, while I agree that Pale Ales in general are less assertive in flavour than IPA's, brewing practice was and remains so diverse that one cannot be too categoric in terms of IPA vs. Pale Ale, bittering vs. aromatic hops, etc. One of the great insights in Jackson's World Guide To Beer was how flexible the English Bitter type of beer was and indeed is (oddly, the term bitter seems to be dying out in Britain today but the type of beer it represents is still going strong as a minority taste there). Some bitters had a decidedly sweet palate, Jackson wrote, despite their challenging name yet some very much lived up to it. This had to be true and is true concerning IPA's as well. The Brits were fast and loose with terminology, which they rightly did not regard as restricting.

Gary

[doubleblank]

Jim, if you like your IPA very heavily hopped, there's one made out in your part of the world by Anderson Valley Brewery in Booneville. I think they call it "Hop Ottin IPA", which in their local lingo means hard working hops. It definitely has a grapefruit character you see in many IPA's....I like it a lot. Can't get it here in Texas, but I go by the brewery when visiting my property west of Philo. Booneville has a great microbrewery festival in May...you can combine winery visits and beer. Anyway, try the Anderson Valley IPA if you want a hops monster.

Randy B.

[texascarl]

You might have better luck closer to home. I don't know if they'll sell a mixture, but a couple of local sixpacks might offer an alternative to $20 shipping.

Brooklyn Brewery

Our local regional brewery only sells a sampler during the holidays, tho' I've asked them to market these year round. So far they've chosen not to do so.

Boulevard

Oh well, there are many liquor stores out here that set up one shelf unit to sell beer by the bottle and/or offer the chance to pick out a mixed 6-pack. I usually grab 3 or 4 malty Rogue Dead Guy Ales and a couple of 'new' beers to sample this way (The price of a mixed 6 is less than the price of a 6 pack of Dead Guy ale. I get the best of both worlds this way).