"Pro Tips"

[WhiskeyBlender]

5 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

 

Smelling the rickhouse while you're tasting the whiskey as it is thiefed from the barrel and directly sloshed  into your glass is about as good as it gets!

That is so true, Smokinjoe, very well said! 

[Madhatter]

On 11/10/2017 at 8:03 PM, WhiskeyBlender said:

 

2.) When nosing, put your nose towards the top of the glass, rather than from the middle or the bottom. Towards the bottom, there will be a lot more volatility, fusel oils, etc., but from the top, you'll get more gentle, pleasant aromatics. You'll also get a truer reading of aromatics of the bourbon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I am going to mention certainly does not fall under pro-tips, since I am anything but pro.  But, with respect to nosing, this is something I picked up from another user on these bourbon sites.  Rather than using a glass for nosing, smell the bourbon directly from the open neck of the bottle.  It seems to concentrate the aromatic volatiles (small area opening) more than from a purpose constructed glass.  It is also consistent with WhiskeyBlender's rec to nose at the top rather than closer to the liquid surface.

[RWBadley]

 

44 minutes ago, Madhatter said:

 

 

 Rather than using a glass for nosing, smell the bourbon directly from the open neck of the bottle.  It seems to concentrate the aromatic volatiles (small area opening) more than from a purpose constructed glass.  It is also consistent with WhiskeyBlender's rec to nose at the top rather than closer to the liquid surface.

^^   Do not- under any circumstances- proceed to chug directly from the bottle;  as this will quickly lead to a total loss of caring what the whiskey smells or tastes like

[Madhatter]

47 minutes ago, RWBadley said:

 

^^   Do not- under any circumstances- proceed to chug directly from the bottle;  as this will quickly lead to a total loss of caring what the whiskey smells or tastes like

Well I guess that eliminates my next pro-tip titled:  Combined nosing and tasting techniques when spouse isn't looking.

[smokinjoe]

Pro Tip:

I do not recommend buying Booker's when packaged in the box.  Too many times I see Booker's laying on their side in the box on the bottom shelf while waiting for shelf space to clear on the normal upper shelves where they can stand vertically.  As we know, the high proof of bourbon can wreck havoc on cork destroying the taste of the whiskey, and sometimes these Booker's are laying on their sides for weeks and even months.  Even, if you see standing vertical in the box on the top shelf, there is a chance that at one time it was below on its side.

[Clueby]

30 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

Pro Tip:

I do not recommend buying Booker's when packaged in the box.  Too many times I see Booker's laying on their side in the box on the bottom shelf while waiting for shelf space to clear on the normal upper shelves where they can stand vertically.  As we know, the high proof of bourbon can wreck havoc on cork destroying the taste of the whiskey, and sometimes these Booker's are laying on their sides for weeks and even months.  Even, if you see standing vertical in the box on the top shelf, there is a chance that at one time it was below on its side.

I've never seen a Booker's for sale out of its box?!

[Guss West]

Nor have I seen a Bookers with natural cork. 

 

Does prolonged exposure contact of a synthetic cork with the spirit damage the spirit in the same way as prolonged exposure to natural cork? 

 

IDK.  Mebbe one of the "professionals" know the answer? 

[tanstaafl2]

I am not a professional nor do I play one on TV (or SB.com!) but I am pretty sure that synthetic corks are not prone to problems (or at least much less likely) with prolonged exposure to the liquor from laying on their side. But I still don't think it is ever the ideal way to store a spirit.

 

I occasionally see Bookers without the box on the shelf but for some reason not so much lately.

[Kane]

For what it's worth, I rescued a Glenlivet Nadurra  16yo 55% from a clueless friend who had stored the bottle on its side for a year. The cork was as good as new.

 

So my pro tip: Don't do it, but also don't obsess over it.

[smokinjoe]

I can say I've definitely seen Booker's without the box on the shelf.  

 

The change to non-cork synthetic must have been in the last couple of years, as there is dialogue here of cork stopped Booker's from then.  

 

Purchasing any bourbon laying on its side from a store you don't know is something I don't recommend.

 

Some previous discussions here:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by smokinjoe

[Harry in WashDC]

50 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

I can say I've definitely seen Booker's without the box on the shelf.

 

     * * * * *

Purchasing any bourbon laying on its side from a store you don't know is something I don't recommend.

 

Yep.  And, yep.  Second time I saw the non-box Booker's I asked.  Guy said, "It takes up too much space."  It was on a top shelf with vacancies all over.  I guess he meant it takes up too much space in the storage room.  RE: side storage.  I made the mistake of buying several dusty liqueurs that had spent time on their sides.  More than half had to be strained to get cork bits out of them, and several were rancid.  Bourbons?  After the liqueur experience, I have not taken the chance.  I've also passed on some fancy decanters over the years for fear their corks would be bad, and I'm not that much into crockery. 

[fishnbowljoe]

My top three tips: 

 

#1. Save the corks from your empty bottles. You just never know.  

#2. Save a few of your empty 750's. Again, you just never know. Old decanters, "family sized" bottles, etc.....

#3. Don't be a dick.

 

Cheers! Joe

[Guss West]

Unfortunately, some of us are richards despite our best intentions.  Or, perhaps, because of them? 

 

Now that I recollect on it, maybe I remember old Bookers with that nice smooth dense real cork.  I'd be lying if I said I was certain.  I haven't had any for a long while and only recently bunkered some Toogie's upon the price hike scare.  Toogie's has the synthetic cork. 

 

Not sure it's a pro tip, but another thing I avoid is buying bottles that have been sitting in the liquor store window collecting sunlight for god knows how long.  Shame there is a place I know with a $500 bottle of THH sitting there collecting dust (and UV irradiation).  Maybe it wouldn't matter, but it feels like a gamble to me.  He can keep his overpriced whasky. 

 

 

 

[PaulO]

I agree on both points.

Whiskey stored on its' side, or in direct sunlight is not proper.  It bothers me like fingernails on a chalkboard to see either.

[smokinjoe]

Pro Tip:

BYOPC (Bring Your Own Palate Cleanser).  When you and your buddies go to the distillery of your choice for a Barrel selection, they will have water available for you (though it's a good idea to bring a bottle of your own, as more is never "too much" in the water department at these things).  However, there is a dearth of palate cleanser snacks available.  In my experience, only Four Roses had palate cleanser snacks (in 4R case it is tortilla chips), so it's a good idea to bring along your snack of choice to nibble on throughout the selection process.  

[WhiskeyBlender]

14 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

 

#1. Save the corks from your empty bottles. You just never know.  

That is sage advice, Joe! I'd add to save the synthetic corks especially, since real cork dries out quickly if it isn't being used. For bottling, I always prefer synthetic cork to real cork. It might not be as "sexy," but it saves you a lot of grief in the long run. 

 

12 hours ago, Guss West said:

 

Not sure it's a pro tip, but another thing I avoid is buying bottles that have been sitting in the liquor store window collecting sunlight for god knows how long.  Shame there is a place I know with a $500 bottle of THH sitting there collecting dust (and UV irradiation).  Maybe it wouldn't matter, but it feels like a gamble to me.  He can keep his overpriced whasky. 

@Guss West, this is another excellent point regarding bottles that have been sitting on a retail shelf in the sunlight for god knows how long. I do an experiment for a distilling & QC class I teach (Nosing for Faults) where I take a bottle of bourbon and divide it in two. One half of the bourbon I keep stored in a cool, dark place, and the other half I keep out near a window all day, so that it gets the maximum amount of sunlight. I do this for about 2 weeks. I take the 2 samples for the class to smell and taste the difference between the control bottle and the one that has been out in the light. People are always struck by just how big of a difference there is between the two, as the bourbon that has been exposed to sunlight will taste "degraded," for want of a better term, meaning that it is kind of oxidized and flat, and the typical bourbon aromas are muted. In fact, while I run this experiment, I check the rate of degradation daily, and I, too, am blown away by how much damage just 1 day can do. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by WhiskeyBlender

[tanstaafl2]

13 hours ago, Guss West said:

 

Not sure it's a pro tip, but another thing I avoid is buying bottles that have been sitting in the liquor store window collecting sunlight for god knows how long.  Shame there is a place I know with a $500 bottle of THH sitting there collecting dust (and UV irradiation).  Maybe it wouldn't matter, but it feels like a gamble to me.  He can keep his overpriced whasky. 

 

Is "whasky" short for nasty whisky?

 

Sounds like he has an $80-$100 bottle of THH that he happens to be charging $500 for. That amount of gouging alone would be enough reason not to buy from the store. The sun exposure is just the icing, or UV radiation, on the cake!

 

THH, as lovely as it is, will never be a $500 bottle of whiskey for me.

[tanstaafl2]

When it comes to saving corks and bottles I like to save bottles with a good quality screw cap when I can get them. Japanese whisky in particular has a nice reliable appearing closure.

 

I do save both cork and synthetic because I can't always find a synthetic that will fit some of the wider mouth bottles using cork. But I prefer synthetic. Or just decant the whole bottle to one of my reliable Japanese screw cap bottles.

 

When saving bottles it isn't a bad idea to save a few 375's as well as they come in handy for storing low fill 750ml bottles you might be keeping a while or that have had the cork break. The BT Experimental series bottles are a convenient size and shape to me and I think generally use synthetic corks. But those little buggers can be pretty pricey when full.

[smokinjoe]

5 minutes ago, tanstaafl2 said:

When it comes to saving corks and bottles I like to save bottles with a good quality screw cap when I can get them. Japanese whisky in particular has a nice reliable appearing closure.

 

I do save both cork and synthetic because I can't always find a synthetic that will fit some of the wider mouth bottles using cork. But I prefer synthetic. Or just decant the whole bottle to one of my reliable Japanese screw cap bottles.

 

When saving bottles it isn't a bad idea to save a few 375's as well as they come in handy for storing low fill 750ml bottles you might be keeping a while or that have had the cork break. The BT Experimental series bottles are a convenient size and shape to me and I think generally use synthetic corks. But those little buggers can be pretty pricey when full.

I like the 375ml save idea!  

[JTaylor]

3 hours ago, tanstaafl2 said:

 

THH, as lovely as it is, will never be a $500 bottle of whiskey for me.

There hasn't been a whisk(e)y made that's a $500 bottle as far as I'm concerned... 

[Bnrhodes3]

2 minutes ago, JTaylor said:

There hasn't been a whisk(e)y made that's a $500 bottle as far as I'm concerned... 

I've heard similar things on a few occasions and I'm curious as to why that is?

I know it's not necessarily better to be extra old, but if something took longer to make and finish than I've been alive (we have been alive, or even twice that long in some rare cases), I can see how it might demand a higher price. Even if it was a barrel that was stuck somewhere and virtually untouched for decades, that took someone's time, money, and skill to make and also took up space, which from a business perspective, is rarely free - ask any business how much it will cost you to store something by the square foot in their space for a year, then ask about 30 years haha.

Now, this doesn't mean you should personally ever pay $100,000, $500, $100, or even $50 for a bottle of anything, but I find it hard to not see the value in the time and process for some of the older, more limited, items (I can't ever see myself paying for unique art either, but some people pay millions for rare pieces and I understand why some fetch what they do).

 

From my own perspective, a big part of what makes all of this so interesting to me is the history, knowledge, and time that goes in to making these products. Without those pieces, I think I would be nuts to pay more than $15/bottle for alcohol spiked flavored water, but it is more than just the finished product that demands the prices that are paid.

 

With that, I'll thrown in my own pro-tip (like anything else, this may just be second nature to some). Hobbies and passions have many facets to them, and to further the experience, it can be interesting to go above the subject and try to understand the knowledge, time, skill, history, and passion that goes in to the process of things that you are passionate about. Since this particular hobby allows anyone to enjoy a nice a pour, it might not be for everyone, but for some, the experience can be all the more enjoyable by sitting down with a glass and pondering over the nuances of science, art, and time that culminated into the liquid that rests in your glass. 

[Kane]

55 minutes ago, Bnrhodes3 said:

I've heard similar things on a few occasions and I'm curious as to why that is?

I think what's meant there was that you could achieve the same level of enjoyment and appreciation of the craft with far less expensive, yet still high quality whiskies.

 

I don't think anyone would dare debate the inherent value of a well-made whiskey otherwise.

[Bnrhodes3]

1 hour ago, Kane said:

I think what's meant there was that you could achieve the same level of enjoyment and appreciation of the craft with far less expensive, yet still high quality whiskies.

 

I don't think anyone would dare debate the inherent value of a well-made whiskey otherwise.

I can definitely agree with that! 

[JTaylor]

49 minutes ago, Bnrhodes3 said:

I've heard similar things on a few occasions and I'm curious as to why that is?

I know it's not necessarily better to be extra old, but if something took longer to make and finish than I've been alive (we have been alive, or even twice that long in some rare cases), I can see how it might demand a higher price. Even if it was a barrel that was stuck somewhere and virtually untouched for decades, that took someone's time, money, and skill to make and also took up space, which from a business perspective, is rarely free - ask any business how much it will cost you to store something by the square foot in their space for a year, then ask about 30 years haha.

Now, this doesn't mean you should personally ever pay $100,000, $500, $100, or even $50 for a bottle of anything, but I find it hard to not see the value in the time and process for some of the older, more limited, items (I can't ever see myself paying for unique art either, but some people pay millions for rare pieces and I understand why some fetch what they do).

 

From my own perspective, a big part of what makes all of this so interesting to me is the history, knowledge, and time that goes in to making these products. Without those pieces, I think I would be nuts to pay more than $15/bottle for alcohol spiked flavored water, but it is more than just the finished product that demands the prices that are paid.

 

With that, I'll thrown in my own pro-tip (like anything else, this may just be second nature to some). Hobbies and passions have many facets to them, and to further the experience, it can be interesting to go above the subject and try to understand the knowledge, time, skill, history, and passion that goes in to the process of things that you are passionate about. Since this particular hobby allows anyone to enjoy a nice a pour, it might not be for everyone, but for some, the experience can be all the more enjoyable by sitting down with a glass and pondering over the nuances of science, art, and time that culminated into the liquid that rests in your glass. 

Wow... Yeah... that's why I qualified it by saying "... as far as I'm concerned."  People spend all kinds of money on whiskey, art, guns, wine, cars, etc... the list is endless and I admit I'm one of those people... The last time I checked my bunker value was somewhere in the $6k range, to many people who see it this is excessive, to others it might seem perfectly reasonable or even low. I'm in no position to judge anyone's Whiskeyrexia Nervosa... To someone out there PVW23 might be the best most delicious stuff to ever see oak or they just want the prestige of having a bottle on hand and to them it might be worth every penny... to me it's no longer worth the $300 retail price, let alone the prices it commands on secondary. It was worth the $300 (to me) the first time I bought it because in my mind I assigned a value to the "experience" but now that I've put that notch in my belt, I just wouldn't get $300 worth of enjoyment out of owning another. To some people the $300 is outrageous, I know my wife is one of those...  and to some people who light their cigars with flaming $100 bills the $3K or whatever secondary price is no big deal.

 

One of the ongoing themes on here can be summarized by a couple acronyms:  "YMMV" and "IMHO". I used "As far as I'm concerned". Everyone has different tastes, palates, and disposable incomes. One guy's favorite $150 daily drinker might not be worth $1 to another, and some people go ga ga for $20 WSR... I don't care for it that much. To me it's all just future pee and to spend $500 on one bottle of future pee seems funny to me, but somehow $6k on a couple hundred bottles is perfectly reasonable.

 

Whiskey, Cigars, Firearms, Automobiles, all hobbies of mine.  I enjoy these hobbies for exactly the reasons you point out in your last paragraph, for the artistry, craftsmanship, engineering, time, and human ingenuity that went into the invention, production and perfection of these finer things in life. Believe me, I enjoy my whiskey, but I enjoy it without any desire to spend $500 on a bottle. We just all have different tastes and disposable incomes and value the commodity differently. The beauty of it is that most of these hobbies can be satisfactorily enjoyed at pretty much any level. Just personally, even though I could, I won't spend $500 on a bottle of booze...  At this point in time there's just no bottle worth $500 TO ME. YMMV. 

[fishnbowljoe]

21 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

My top three tips: 

 

#1. Save the corks from your empty bottles. You just never know.  

#2. Save a few of your empty 750's. Again, you just never know. Old decanters, "family sized" bottles, etc.....

#3. Don't be a dick.

 

Cheers! Joe

 I thought of a couple more. 

 

#4. Always have an extra Glencairn/glass handy. Especially when you're on the road. Whenever I head down to Bardstown, I always bring two Glencairns. Over the last 10 years, I've seen a few broken or "misplaced". And I ain't sayin' if any of 'em were mine. 

 

#5. Save your Blanton's or CR bags. They're great for storing or holding all kinds of stuff. With regards to #4, a Glencairn fits rather nicely in a Blanton's bag. 

 

Cheers! Joe