Hello All! Newbie Here!

[scotchyjr]

Hello all! I'm new to this board. I found your site via the scotch news group. Hope you don't mind a newbie to whisky/whiskey and bourbon with lots of questions! lol.

Anyway, after about twelve different bottles of single malt scotch, and a bottle of Jameson Irish whiskey, I decided to try bourbon. So yesterday I picked up a bottle of Elijah Craig 12.

And I have to say, it's very yummy. This tasted like the perfect after dinner/before you go to bed dram. Yummy!

One thing I noticed about all the scotch's I tried, they were all light. Very very light. Almost too light for me. I kept hoping I would find one that was as rich as jack Daniels and tasted better. I don't think I have found one yet that tasted better, except Highland Park, which I find outstanding. Maybe I shouldn't say no scotch tasted better than jack D. but none had the flavor I was looking for.

But that Elijah Craig was perfect. I don't know, maybe because I'm an American my makeup is automatically geared more towards American whiskey (bourbon/Canadian) than the scotches. I guess you call the scotch's light taste "peaty" and the U.S. whiskeys "sweet". Maybe I like the sweet taste because all the diet coke I drink.

So, here I am, drinking a dram of Elijah Craig. And I'm looking forward to jumping into the world of American bourbon whiskey!

[dhooch]

Welcome, aboard!

As a S****h drinker, you would like EC 12 yo bourbon. It has a different, harsher, taste from many other bourbons. I, personally, don't like EC 12, but many other folks do like it.

You want to try many other bourbons, to get a feel for the variety and, maybe you will find others to your liking!

One thing to keep in mind, what you like other people will not... conversely, what you may not like, other bourbon drinkers may praise! Don't ever get offended. We are all here to learn and I have been swayed to the dark side on a number of occasions.

Again, welcome!

[cowdery]

You're off to a good start, in your choice of bourbons, your analysis of what you have experienced so far, and your choice of this forum. Welcome.

[scotchyjr]

Another thing nice about this Elijah Craig 12 - it was only $12.00 A 12 year old bottle of scotch would cost me $30-$40 dollars.

One thing I noticed about the scotch's, they were light on the throat but hard on the stomach. If I drink more than one dram then it will upset my stomach. Three drams and my head is in a paper bag. Jack Daniels and this Elijah Craig are different. It seems much much easier on my stomach, plus providing the taste I want. I know I could drink a lot of jack and not get sick (I don't do that anymore). I wonder if that's because it and bourbon are made from 51%+ corn? I don't know what it is about scotch, but it is hard on my stomach. Bourbon seems so much softer.

[Black85L98]

Welcome

EC12YO is great, to me. Try as many as you can you will find several you like.

[gr8erdane]

Welcome scotchy, but be careful. When the Bourbon Bug bites, as it did me, you may find that what started as a tasting experiment goes to hobby and then to obsession. But what a tasty obsession it is!

[OneCubeOnly]

Let me add my welcome to SB.com! With EC12 you've taken the plunge into bourbons with one of my personal favorites. And just like you said, it's a bargain!

EC12 gets mixed reviews around here...it's what I call a "love it or hate it" bourbon. If you want to explore more of the bourbon spectrum, for your next tasting you might try a bourbon with a bit more finesse: something small batch or single-barrel perhaps.

Anyway, welcome again, and enjoy!

[Barrel_Proof]

I, too, was introduced to the emerging bourbon renaissance through Heaven Hill's wonderful Elijah Craig 12 yo. It's not for everyone, but it is for me!

Welcome to this community of bourbon fans. We look forward to your reports on your trip through bourbonia. Enjoy the journey.

[scotchyjr]

Yea, whisky is addicting. Or maybe I should say whisky buying is addicting. Right now I want to get all the high rated ones in the whisky book I have - Jim Murray's Whiskey Bible 2004.

I just picked up a bottle of Wild Turkey Russell's Reserve 10 year old. This stuff is 101 proof. I have never had something this strong. The strongest I have had is 47% Should I water this 101 proof bourbon down or something? I usually drink two to four ounces at night. Should I reduce this to one ounce or something?

[cowdery]

It's always acceptable to dilute. Whatever suits your tastebuds. Room temperature water is preferred but plenty of us here have been known to drop in one cube of ice and nobody has been arrested for it yet. I think anything above 100 proof should be diluted for drinking and I can certainly understand someone wanting to dilute even at 100-101 proof.

On the other hand, 101 proof is 50.5% alcohol, not much different from the 47% you say you've already had. The intensity of flavor in bourbon, especially when compared to scotch, isn't a matter of alcohol proof, it's the effect of the new barrels mostly. It's just a lot more flavor. Still, a little water will tame that and expose some of the more subtle flavors.

No offense intended to anyone, but I always hear a note of macho posturing whenever someone insists that whiskey must always be drunk neat. Diluting your whiskey does not place your manhood at risk.

[Paradox]

There's a guy where I work who is getting into bourbon, because of me... He started on Maker's Mark and has been moving all over the spectrum. He doesn't really enjoy anything above 90 proof straight yet, and for that I cannot fault him. I told him to add a cube or two or a bit of water to pours over 90 proof only after trying at least a sip undiluted. That way he will know if he has found something acceptable to him and also how much to add. So I agree with you Chuck about adding a cube or some water to a pour to be ok for one's manhood. I just hope after some time he can learn to enjoy pours minus the added water or ice; There is much to be enjoyed at bottled proof, but only if you can handle it w/o making that alcohol burn face!

Also, the last bottle I got him to try was WT RR and oddly enough he really really liked it, even more than ORVW 10 year 107 proof. To date his favorite has been Eagle Rare Single Barrel 10 year 90 proof. He try's to stay under $30, but I am proud of him. He really has been giving this a good go and gives me his honest impressions. He's just hard to suggest recommendations to though; hat he likes and dislikes are all over the place! He enjoyed Makers Mark but not ORVW 10 year and then liked Weller 12 yo. He liked Eagle Rare Single Barrel and Wild Turkey RR but not Old Forester.

[timberwolf]

Agreed. I seldom use to drink whisky neat because I didn't think it would be enjoyable that way. As a result, I never really did enjoy whisky until I tried it without anything to cover it up. I've tried it with ice, but I find I don't care for it colder than room temp. I don't mind it warm, though. I don't usually add water, but I haven't yet tried anything over 100 proof, so I may change my mind about that. After much trial and error, I've decided I prefer my whisky neat. The point is, you should drink it if, and as, you prefer it. And why not?

I like this forum primarily because nobody tells you what to like, yet most will be helpful and provide their own opinions, and all the while keep an open mind about yours. In my experience, this is pretty rare in an online community.

[Paradox]

I like this forum primarily because nobody tells you what to like, yet most will be helpful and provide their own opinions, and all the while keep an open mind about yours. In my experience, this is pretty rare in an online community.

Thanks Micheal The Admin and Moderator staff here may run a tight ship but we only do so to keep this forum from decaying like so many others out there.

Just from experience, when you eventually venture over the 100 proof gap, water or a cube may be necessary, but like anything else, I'm sure with time you'll learn to appreciate a few sips if not a glass at bottled proof. The question is what should be your first 'to try' bourbon over 100 proof? Maybe something Van Winkle, like the 15 yo? I sure wish I were in your shoes trying some of the great pours available for the first time again!

[timberwolf]

Right now, my heart's set on Wild Turkey Rare Breed for my first such 100+ proof adventure. As soon as I break down and spring for some, I'll let you know how it went!

[Paradox]

Great choice and one at a reasonable price, enjoy! I just may have to go buy a bottle this weekend... I haven't had Rare Breed in some time now.

[bluesbassdad]

I have only recently come to identify with Chuck's characterization of certain bourbon drinkers in regard to the aura of drinking it neat. (Actually, he had considerable help from Mr. Stagg. )

Even more recently, last night, in fact, I added water to Rare Breed for the first time. I can't say what the ending proof was; I merely topped off a nearly full flask, solely to keep the contents from making a sloshing noise in my pocket. I'll take a wild guess that it ended up somewhere between 80 and 90, because there was no burn whatsoever.

Yes, I found it more enjoyable than drinking it neat -- and I'm now man enough to say so, thanks to Chuck and others here at SB.com.

BTW, anyone within an easy drive of a Trader Joe's should look for Rare Breed on their shelves -- at $25.99 per 750 ml. bottle. (I have no idea whether TJ's exists in NW Arkansas.)

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[timberwolf]

Nope, no Trader Joe's (and very little else, I might add, although that is part of its charm). Local price for a 750mL RB is on the order of $34.

You know, I'd say 90 proof is fairly manly (or womanly) if that's ever an issue. I don't know just a whole lot of non-enthusiasts that drink straight 90-proof whisky comfortably, while I observe that most enthusiasts do. I suspect too much alcohol would hide the flavor, and I'm in it for the flavor. If it was just about being macho and achieving an efficient buzz, I guess we'd all be raving about Everclear 190, eh?

Two of my great joys are exploration and discovery, and while I believe you should thoroughly try something before deciding it's not for you, I also believe there's no point in pretending to like something you don't.

Finally, I think the ability to accept the validity of an opposing viewpoint without feeling that your own viewpoint is threatened is a sign of maturity and wisdom, and I just prefer to hang out with people like that.

[jeff]

Ok, you guys can drink your bourbon however you like and it's OK with me, but let's get off the "If you like to drink it neat your just trying to prove your masculinity"

I don't think there is any right or wrong way to go about it here, and I don't feel that any of you who add water are any more or less enlightened than me. If you want to drink your bourbon with an olive and a twist of lime then by all means go ahead, just lay off the neanderthal references for those of us who like it neat.

[kitzg]

I like this forum primarily because nobody tells you what to like

if we all liked the same thing this world would be boring as hell. So why should we tell each other what to like.

It is like asking people about Pizza! I know New Yorkers who claim there is no 'pie like a NY pizza pie.' I know Chicagoans who believe there is nothing to beat a Chicago deep-dish pizza. And I just like them all!

Some like wheated bourbons, some like rye bourbons, some like 'em all. I don't even care what Jim Murray claims to be the best. There is no best.

But there sure is a LOT of fine boubon.

[bluesbassdad]

Jeff,

In regard to the masculinity thing, I was speaking only for myself. If anyone cared to review my posts on the subject, it would be obvious that I started with the idea that neat is better and that I thought more experience would lead me to the point where I perceived it that way. Thanks to my interactions with the folks here at SB.com, I no longer believe that (and, overall, I'm no more in touch with my sensitive side than I ever was ).

BTW, which is better in bourbon, black olives or green olives?

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[jeff]

I'm sorry Dave, I ment no offense to anyone in particular. I was having a bad morning It's just that there seems to be trends on this subject from time to time. One school is the "Drink it straight like a man" group. Another, and current I believe, school is the "You're not smart enough to know that you are supposed to dilute it" crowd. I don't know why it has to be one way or the other, but we seem hell-bent on over analyzing everything lately so I guess it's right that we should become confrontational on enjoyment as well.

Can't we all just get along?

[Gillman]

My opinion is that whiskey tastes best neat provided neat means between 80-100 proof. Drinking spirits over 100 proof neat makes no sense in my opinion.

I think for some people there is a gradation: first liquor is drunk in mixed drinks, then on the rocks, then with a little water, and later just straight up. This is because one accustoms to the flavor and drinking whiskey neat allows the maximium flavor to come through. I certainly agree that anyone who likes whiskey diluted has nothing to apologise for. From a health point of view, it is probably better to drink liquor as dilute as possible: that is another reason to favor the practice. Also, one probably will drink less that way, which is always a good thing. Taking whiskey neat is taking alcohol in its purest form and one should be careful to go easy to ensure intoxication (or undue intoxication, we all know or should know where the line is) does not result. Because I like whiskey straight-up I just drink less of it, one or two drams at a go and that's it (maybe some beer or wine with food later if that seems appropriate). I am not dictating to anyone what to do but just indicating what has worked for me over the years.

I must say too I always regarded buying high proof spirits as a very valid economy measure, one I practise frequently, but not more than that. I recently bought Aberlour single malt at 60% abv. and when I diluted it to about 43% abv. it tasted almost exactly like the regular Abelour sold at that price. All the stuff about the high test version being non-chill-filtered, etc. seemed to make little difference to the palate when the comparison was done. (If anything I thought the regular issue was better, more complex). Proof difference is just a financial thing to me, it is a way of buying more for less, that's all. This is not to say 80 proof is always satisfying: sometimes yes, sometimes, no, it depends on the whiskey. So sometimes one will want to buy higher than at 80 proof but I won't ever buy higher than 100 proof for taste purposes alone because I won't drink it at higher.

Gary

[Paradox]

My basic take on the whole thing is to drink it as you like it -but- try and grow in your tasting ways. If you find it harsh at first or too overpowering by all means, add some water or ice. But try and progress towards being able to enjoy some pours straight. If it just isn't your thing after a while then that's the way it will be. Just don't accept that adding water is the ONLY way as well as accepting straight is the ONLY way. Some things may not make sense to some people but at least try and accept their ways of doing things... Just because something does not make sense to one person doesn't mean it is totally senseless to everyone. Just my

[bluesbassdad]

Can't we all just get along?

That depends. Are you buying the next round?

Seriously, you are on to something in regard to the polar opposites at work here. True enlightenment generally means something other than abandoning one position, only to embrace a different one with equal fervor.

Now before any reader who secretly fears s/he is not enlightened takes offense at the above, let me say that some of my best friends are benighted, at least in some areas.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[cowdery]

A subtle distinction, Jeff. I'm not saying it is macho posturing to drink spirits neat. I'm saying it is often macho posturing when people insist dogmatically that whiskey or some other spirit must be consumed neat. I'm not accusing anyone in this community of that sin, but it is committed regularly in the wider society and our newbies may be exposed to it among their friends and associates.

I also am not saying that one must dilute. I'm just saying it's okay and not girlie if you do.