Proofing Down Barrel Strength Bourbon

[tarheel]

As someone who goes back and forth between bourbon and scotch, I have lately been leaning towards scotch because for whatever reason bourbon has been hitting me as having too much of a bite on the back end recently. Then it dawned on me - much of what I have in my cabinet is BP/CS: KCSB, MMCS, JDBP, ECBP, WTRB. So today I had mini pours of what I have on hand that are lower proof: Blanton's, RRSB, WTKS, ER, and I enjoyed them quite a bit. So even though I've been at this awhile, it appears my palate has become wimpy.

 

The issue I have is that I feel like buying BP/CS bourbon and watering it down significantly is a waste, right? Isn't it meant to be enjoyed close to BP? My question is - do you all normally hit your BP/CS bourbon with a healthy dose of water? THANKS!

[JCwhammie]

First off I'd say: it's your bourbon, if you want to buy CS and water it down then get after it. I go through stages where I want the 90ish proof pours and stages where I want the barrels proofers. For this reason I have quite a few of both. I find that the majority of the time I prefer something in the 100-115 range, so that's what I have the most of. Since barrell proofers are disproportionately priced (see Wade Woodard's thread on that subject), I recommend buying something bottled at your preferred proof. 

[Richnimrod]

Of course you must make up your own mind, tarheel; but, I see no reason to drink anything exactly as it comes from the bottle, unless that's the way I enjoy it the most. 

For me, I usually have a sip or two at bottled strength and decide after that how the dram is hitting me on that day.     If it seems lovely, I continue merrily along sipping it neat. 

If it seems hot, or too hot to taste the nuances, I'll try adding a little water (usually a few drops and re-taste).    Sometimes I repeat that process several times before finding the right balance for the day.   

Or, I sometimes add a small cube of ice rather than the water drops.      I enjoy finding the nuanced changes as the ice melts and slowly dilutes the dram. 

I guess I'm pretty flexible; seeking enjoyment in whatever direction it seems to be hiding.  

[Harry in WashDC]

Hhhhmm.  With bourbon, I do what JCw and Rich do - put ice in a barrel proof (or over proof) if I want ice in a barrel proof.  There are some, like OGD 114, I expect to put ice in (which, atypically, I actually calculated to see what the "final" proof of a typical machine ice cube takes two measured ounces to - ANS. 101). The 4R recipes are a set I might taste first to see what fits my mood - cube, water, nothing.  The inexpensive 107s almost always get a cube.  GTS never, ever gets a cube; neither do the over-100 JAMagnus offerings.  Most things 100 proof or less hardly ever get one.  Last night, though, I just didn't feel like drinking Blanton's neat - TWO cubes took it to an estimated 78 which was STILL exceptionally fruity (last night, anyway).

 

I don't really drink scotch, BUT Irish whiskey (which I knew nothing about until about four years ago so taste several times a month) almost never gets water or ice; this includes the barrel proofs although with those I do usually keep some water nearby for in-between sipping.

[mbroo5880i]

While I enjoy various proofs, both greater than and less than 100.  I tend to try a sip or two of a BPer at full strength and then proof my pour down to 100 to 105.  

[tarheel]

Thanks for all of the helpful replies everyone. I'm hoping that water helps me enjoy my BP bourbon more. One more fun thing to tweak that will make a pour different every time.

[lcpfratn]

I usually drink BP whiskey neat, but occasionally my palate is not in the mood for it so I’ll add a little water. When it starts knocking on 140 proof or above, I will also usually add some water to bring the heat down after I’ve had a few sips at full strength, but not always. I also have a lot of other bourbon that isn’t BP, so I’ll drink those if I don’t think I’m in the mood for BP strength stuff.

[flahute]

Barrel proof whiskey results in a wide variety of responses as to how it's best enjoyed.

There's the crowd who says that it must by enjoyed neat because that's how the master distiller intended it to be drunk. I disagree with this position. 

Distilleries are providing more and more barrel proof offerings because they know it's popular with consumers. And because they can charge a lot more. The latter point is the real driver.

As for how you should enjoy it? Add water until you find your sweet spot.

I love barrel proof whiskey because I get to decide what proof to enjoy it. Though I tend to love it at full strength I also know that it will burn out my palate pretty quickly.

So, I tend to have 2-3 sips at full strength and then I add water. How much? It changes every time. Depends on my mood and palate situation.

This is why barrel proof whiskey is so great. It's versatile.

[Kepler]

I guess I'm lazy; I don't normally add water unless I'm just curious about how it changes.  When I'm in the mood for something lower in proof I just reach for a different bottle.

[Paddy]

Unless I'm drinking it neat, I'm a drop one cube then let it melt before drinking kinda guy.  Maybe I'm just lazy... 

[flahute]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:20 PM, Kepler said:

I guess I'm lazy; I don't normally add water unless I'm just curious about how it changes.  When I'm in the mood for something lower in proof I just reach for a different bottle.

If I'm drinking a 136 proof ECBP and my palate that night prefers it at 126 or 118 I can't exactly reach for a lower proof bottle that meets that criteria now can I? This is why I add water until I hit the sweet spot.

[mross]

I start out just as it come out of the bottle. Then I may add an ice cube. Usually just one does the trick. Cools it down and slight dilute releases different boutique and flavors. If it seems harsh that night I may add another, thou this is rare. Works nicely for me.

[Kepler]

6 hours ago, flahute said:

If I'm drinking a 136 proof ECBP and my palate that night prefers it at 126 or 118 I can't exactly reach for a lower proof bottle that meets that criteria now can I? This is why I add water until I hit the sweet spot.

True, but remember I'm lazy.  

[flahute]

14 minutes ago, Kepler said:

True, but remember I'm lazy.  

lol - come on and work with me man!

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 12/16/2018 at 10:07 PM, flahute said:

Barrel proof whiskey results in a wide variety of responses as to how it's best enjoyed.

There's the crowd who says that it must by enjoyed neat because that's how the master distiller intended it to be drunk. I disagree with this position. 

Distilleries are providing more and more barrel proof offerings because they know it's popular with consumers. And because they can charge a lot more. The latter point is the real driver.

As for how you should enjoy it? Add water until you find your sweet spot.

I love barrel proof whiskey because I get to decide what proof to enjoy it. Though I tend to love it at full strength I also know that it will burn out my palate pretty quickly.

So, I tend to have 2-3 sips at full strength and then I add water. How much? It changes every time. Depends on my mood and palate situation.

This is why barrel proof whiskey is so great. It's versatile.

That's very well said, Steve. I couldn't agree more with your assessment! 

 

The only thing that I would add would be that even though producers can charge more with higher proof offerings, the taxes that they have to pay on higher proof products are considerably more as well. Financial considerations aside, a few factors I usually take into consideration when deciding what proof to release a whiskey at has to do with the age of the whiskey, the char level, what the entry proof was, and the current proof in the barrel; i.e., has the proof gone up or fallen down. For example, let's say I'm having to work with a young bourbon, perhaps somewhere between 2 to 4 years old, and it has been in a char #3 cask where it didn't pick up much color, and it had an entry proof on the lower side (so that it will get a lot of the water soluble notes like caramelized wood sugars, but color and various aromatic aldehydes will be more reticent in the first few years since), I probably would be looking to release that product somewhere between 94 to 100 proof. If I went as low as 80 on the bottling proof, then the bourbon would be lacking in color, and most likely would lose a lot of aromatics and flavor too boot. If I used a #4 char barrel instead, then I might be able to go as low as 92 or even 90 proof in order to have the requisite color and aromatics, but I still wouldn't want to release below that if I expect it to still have decent flavor. 

 

If I have to reduce from a barrel entry proof of 125 all the way down to a bottling strength of 80, then I'll definitely want to use #4 char barrels so that there will be the requisite color and flavors. Personally, I really don't have to make that big a drop in proof. Water, although natural, is STILL an additive at the end of the day, and the less of it I have to add, the happier I usually am with the final results. 

 

At any rate, you really have to find the whiskey's sweet spot when deciding upon entry proof, and all the above factors have to be taken into consideration. 

 

On a personal level as a consumer, I prefer cask strength, because as @flahute said, you get to decide for yourself how you want to drink it. And perhaps because I work with barrels at cask strength as part of my job, any whiskey that is below 92 proof tastes like water! Lol 

 

 

[jshleffar]

Retarding proofing down your whiskey as you drink it... I much prefer to 'proof up'  meaning Ill pour maybe three small pours of the same whiskey, maybe one with ice or more significant  water, one with a little water and one full strength. I like to work up to the full strength and end on the strongest flavors rather than the most diluted, unless I already know I prefer this particular bottle at a lower proof.

[Richnimrod]

3 hours ago, jshleffar said:

Retarding proofing down your whiskey as you drink it... I much prefer to 'proof up'  meaning Ill pour maybe three small pours of the same whiskey, maybe one with ice or more significant  water, one with a little water and one full strength. I like to work up to the full strength and end on the strongest flavors rather than the most diluted, unless I already know I prefer this particular bottle at a lower proof.

Huh!    I have never heard of anyone doing this!      Now, I have another strategy to consider.   

At first blush, I think it's more work this way (and certainly more dishes).     Also, it seems to assume a larger consumption for a single sitting than I often partake, unless all the pours (and the ice cube) are quite small. 

I'll have to think about this some more....  

[jshleffar]

20 minutes ago, Richnimrod said:

Huh!    I have never heard of anyone doing this!      Now, I have another strategy to consider.   

At first blush, I think it's more work this way (and certainly more dishes).     Also, it seems to assume a larger consumption for a single sitting than I often partake, unless all the pours (and the ice cube) are quite small. 

I'll have to think about this some more....  

Ill usually do about 3, half oz pours so it is more dishes. And I break a cube down with the back of a meat cleaver. Certainly not how I always drink, but when I want to really explore a new one or something this is how I go about it. When I go to lower and lower proof it just seems like you'd understand what you're tasting less since you already shocked the system with stronger flavors (like if you had something real spicy then followed up the same dish with less hot sauce youd barely notice what youre eating).

[The Black Tot]

I set the tap running at a slow trickle and swing my glass under it for the second or two it takes me to eyeball it down to around 105-115 proof.

 

But then, I have tasty tap water. 

 

I like that I don't get out the lab kit and do it exactly when I'm enjoying it (although I do when I barrel pick!), because that random element sometimes yields a surprise flavor experience, which I can then chase more methodically if it is amazing enough.

[Richnimrod]

6 hours ago, jshleffar said:

Ill usually do about 3, half oz pours so it is more dishes. And I break a cube down with the back of a meat cleaver. Certainly not how I always drink, but when I want to really explore a new one or something this is how I go about it. When I go to lower and lower proof it just seems like you'd understand what you're tasting less since you already shocked the system with stronger flavors (like if you had something real spicy then followed up the same dish with less hot sauce youd barely notice what youre eating).

Ahhh.   I completely understand the rationale for doing it this way now.    And, you're totally on the money about higher proof pours dulling the palate in short order. 

Knowing your pours are only a half ounce or so also gives me insight, and I imagine I could do it this way a few times and see if it results in a better understanding of a dram, especially  new one, and most especially a higher proof one. 

Good Thinkin', my friend!   Is this your idea?   ..Or, did someone else explain this method to you?    If it's your own; you should take some credit, sir!

[jshleffar]

13 hours ago, Richnimrod said:

Ahhh.   I completely understand the rationale for doing it this way now.    And, you're totally on the money about higher proof pours dulling the palate in short order. 

Knowing your pours are only a half ounce or so also gives me insight, and I imagine I could do it this way a few times and see if it results in a better understanding of a dram, especially  new one, and most especially a higher proof one. 

Good Thinkin', my friend!   Is this your idea?   ..Or, did someone else explain this method to you?    If it's your own; you should take some credit, sir!

It's just what made sense in my head, which isn't always a positive...

[smokinjoe]

3 hours ago, jshleffar said:

It's just what made sense in my head, which isn't always a positive...

It made sense.  That’s why Rich didn’t get it at first...

 

[WhiskeyBlender]

On 12/21/2018 at 8:24 AM, jshleffar said:

Retarding proofing down your whiskey as you drink it... I much prefer to 'proof up'  meaning Ill pour maybe three small pours of the same whiskey, maybe one with ice or more significant  water, one with a little water and one full strength. I like to work up to the full strength and end on the strongest flavors rather than the most diluted, unless I already know I prefer this particular bottle at a lower proof.

@jshleffar, Ha!!!! You've actually stumbled onto an old Cognac technique for making what is known as "petite eau" or "vieilles faible," meaning "small waters" or "old weak." it is a process of adding old spirit to water, then barrel aging it at around 50 to 60 proof, and then using it for proofing down spirit instead of regular water so that it enriches the blend. Although you weren't trying to make petite eau, you did stumble across the technique of adding "strong to weak," vs. "weak to strong," so that you promote esterification, as opposed to saponification. 

 

You probably notice when you do this, that the flavors are very intense, and not muted in any way? At any rate, very cool that you do this. 

 

Enjoy sipping and creating the esterification process!

 

Cheers,

Nancy

Edited December 22, 2018 by WhiskeyBlender

[Surtur]

I’m a simple guy. At night I open my cabinet and look around and make my choice for what to pour and I just drink it neat. In the summer I might add some ice to something like WT101 for the refrshment, but otherwise it’s all from bottle to glass. I have a lot of open bottles to pick from so I only choose Barrel proof when I’m in the mood for it, but of course as with any bottle sometimes it just doesn’t match up with the palate. There’s no real way of knowing how it’s going to go until you pour and drink

[Vosgar]

2 hours ago, WhiskeyBlender said:

 as opposed to saponification. 

Nancy, in my simple mind saponification just sounds like a naughty word so I looked it up. Now I realize I'm just dumb

 

Saponification is a process that involves conversion of fat or oil into soap and alcohol by the action of heat in the presence of aqueous alkali (e.g. NaOH). Soaps are salts of fatty acids whereas fatty acids are saturated monocarboxylic acids that have long carbon chains (at least 10) e.g. CH₃(CH₂)₁₄COOH.