When Are You Apart Of The Problem?

[Not_That_Fancy]

We all know the bourbon craze is still an ongoing problem for most. You know, the folks who are willing to pay $300 for a bottle of Blantons, or buy every bottle on the shelf....

So when do some of us become a part of the problem? Is it wrong if we are the guy to clear a shelf? 
 

Went to my LS today and he had a fresh case of STagg Jr. At the price I get at and with the 15% case discount, I bought it all. 
 

I consume about half but also love to gift and trade with friends.

Just wanting your thoughts? 

 

 

[GeeTen]

IMHO, bad juju to clear shelves.  I always leave at least one (1) bottle on the shelf for the lucky next guy who comes by.  Sometimes that guy is ME!   Just sayin'.   

[ebo]

I just buy mid shelf Bourbon these days... no problems...lol.

[Harry in WashDC]

What GEETEN said.  More than once (as I've reported on other threads, like the bourbon bubble discussions and what did you pass on, etc.), I've seen something at or close to MSRP and also seen the gleam in the eye of the guy behind me.  This causes me to ask, 'What do you think of this one?"  If he says something like, "I'd love to taste it," I give it to him to buy because I probably have some in the bunker AND already know what it tastes like.  If he says, "Great trade bait," I grab it and bunker it.

 

I admit that, like Dennis Leary's song (borrowed/inspired/stolen [pick one] from Louis CK), A H O L E, I am one when it comes to bourbon. 

 

Aside - When encouraged, I can sing that song a capella.  I am a first tenor.  It has caused the throwing of dollar bills with screams for an encore.  We all have to be hammered, though.  Just saying.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Harry in WashDC

[JCwhammie]

I also agreed with GeeTen. I won't clear the shelves of something that's allocated. Do I think I'm morally better than others because of that? No. But I don't want the karma monster to suddenly stop bringing amazing RR SiB to my market.

Now if I come across something like RR10 on sale for $20 you bet your ass im taking all but one. It's just different if the bottle is on every shelf in town. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by JCwhammie

[NDN98]

I have never taken more than 2 of something that I like.  Always thought it was good Karma to leave some for the next guy.

[clearmoon247]

I have sold a few bottles on secondary. There, I said it! Do I grab the last or only bottle for that purpose, Nope. If there is a good store pick that they have 140 bottles, I will grab 3. 1 to open, 1 to bunker, and a final one for flipping. 

[Not_That_Fancy]

43 minutes ago, JCwhammie said:

I also agreed with GeeTen. I won't clear the shelves of something that's allocated. Do I think I'm morally better than others because of that? No. But I don't want the karma monster to suddenly stop bringing amazing RR SiB to my market.

Now if I come across something like RR10 on sale for $20 you bet your ass im taking all but one. It's just different if the bottle is on every shelf in town. 

So I get RR10 at $22 after tax. Today when Stagg Jr was <$40 OTD... I had to. (Well in my head) 

 

In the small town I’m in, I give it a day before I clear a shelf. 

[fishnbowljoe]

I agree with Frank. I usually leave some behind for the next guy. The only time I don’t is if I was intent on purchasing one or two bottles, and that was all that was left on the shelf. I also used to share a little more info about finding things than I do now, but I had a bad experience one time that kinda pissed me off. To say the least, I’m a little more skeptical nowadays.

 

I’ve told this story before, and I’m gonna tell it again. No offense meant to you Ed, or any of our Chicago brethren. I forget which batch of Stagg Jr it was (batch #8?), but many members posted here that they really liked it. I’d had bottles from a couple of other batches that I thought were pretty good, so I sat out to find one from batch #8. I had a really hard time finding one. Lo and behold, one of my locals stores finally got a bunch in. I bought one to give a try, and left a whole shelf full behind. It was great. I posted about finally finding a bottle, how much I liked it, and that I was going back to that store in a few days to grab a couple more. In my excitement, I posted the name of the store. I went back three or four days later to buy another bottle or two, and the shelf was bare. I asked the store manager if they had any more in the store room. I was told they didn’t. I then asked what happened to ‘em all. I was told that some guy from Chicago came in and bought them all.   Lesson learned. 
 

Joe

 

[Not_That_Fancy]

Joe... no offense. I put this out with the intent of feedback. I think this topic is very subjective to where you live. There isn’t much competition to the bourbon hunt here. I think location has a huge part in this topic. 
 

thoughts? 

[webfoots]

Sounds like you need to tell us where your local is to even things out....

[Kepler]

7 hours ago, Not_That_Fancy said:

We all know the bourbon craze is still an ongoing problem for most. You know, the folks who are willing to pay $300 for a bottle of Blantons, or buy every bottle on the shelf....

So when do some of us become a part of the problem? Is it wrong if we are the guy to clear a shelf? 
 

Went to my LS today and he had a fresh case of STagg Jr. At the price I get at and with the 15% case discount, I bought it all. 
 

I consume about half but also love to gift and trade with friends.

Just wanting your thoughts? 

 

 

 

I think anytime you horde a shelf full of very hard to find bourbon (e.g. Stagg Jr) at a low MSRP with the intent of flipping it either on the secondary market or just as "gift" or "trade" bait even for friends, yes that is being part of the problem.  It's all a form of flipping.

 

Lord knows I've assembled a huge bunker but it's 100% for consumption.

[Jazzhead]

It is rare that I buy multiple bottles of anything.    I recently found a bottle of BT Kosher Wheat (i.e. Weller),  and was so pleased with it that I went  back to the store to get two more,  but left four on the shelf.    I enjoy conversing with other customers shopping for bourbon,  and a couple of months ago convinced a guy to get the lone bottle of Hancock Reserve, which I hadn't seen in years and haven't seen since.   (I bought  a McKenzie's cask strength store pick, which turned out to the best wheater I've had all year,  so I don't feel so bad about giving up the Hancock. )  

[TwoFingers]

I would agree with some of the other comments that it could be bad karma.  I rarely buy more than a couple bottles of any one thing (mostly because I'm cheap), and usually that will be something that isn't hard to find.  If there is only one or two on the shelf, not a problem.  One thing I would ask that you consider is that, if where you live there is truly not much competition for bourbon, is there a need for you buy the whole lot?  Seems as though you would be able to get more.  Also, along the lines of what GeeTen said, you might be depriving someone else of even giving it a try.

[PaulO]

I don't really care for Stagg Jr, so go ahead and buy it all. 

There is a grocery store that has a 30% off sale a couple times a year.  Then I may splurge, but don't worry.  Nothing they have is any sort of LE or unicorn.

Usually I only buy one or two at a time.  I do feel good if I leave some for the next person.  I may tell a manager - this is good, please order some more.

I tell myself I'm done buying expensive ($50+) bottles.  I'm not part of the problem.  I'm part of the solution.

[Bob_Loblaw]

It would be a rare situation where I would clear a shelf nowadays.  Partly because most coveted bottles are behind counters or lotteried etc . . . Partly for karma.  Partly for cost and to space out purchases and build rapport.  I'd say technically if you are ever buying a bottle with thoughts towards anything other than consumption or gifting you are contributing to the overall problem.  

 

That said, to play devil's advocate in this situation, a few questions just to stir the pot:

 

Isn't the retailer here really the biggest part of the problem?  The good ones get a bottle into 6 good or new customer's hands and build loyalty.  Here, they are incentivizing a case purchase.  15% is crazy on an allocated bourbon case.  For those who said you would leave exactly one bottle behind for the next guy would you really buy 5 at $250 vs all 6 at $255?  

 

Why do we generally consider shelf clearing of newly released allocated products bad, but over in the dusty thread a hoard of 8yr WT101 is cleared and its high fives all around?  Is it because the dusty bottles have had ample time to be found by the public?  Kind of like a statute of limitations?  Do the karma rules not apply to dusties?

 

 

[Not_That_Fancy]

17 minutes ago, Bob_Loblaw said:

It would be a rare situation where I would clear a shelf nowadays.  Partly because most coveted bottles are behind counters or lotteried etc . . . Partly for karma.  Partly for cost and to space out purchases and build rapport.  I'd say technically if you are ever buying a bottle with thoughts towards anything other than consumption or gifting you are contributing to the overall problem.  

 

That said, to play devil's advocate in this situation, a few questions just to stir the pot:

 

Isn't the retailer here really the biggest part of the problem?  The good ones get a bottle into 6 good or new customer's hands and build loyalty.  Here, they are incentivizing a case purchase.  15% is crazy on an allocated bourbon case.  For those who said you would leave exactly one bottle behind for the next guy would you really buy 5 at $250 vs all 6 at $255?  

 

Why do we generally consider shelf clearing of newly released allocated products bad, but over in the dusty thread a hoard of 8yr WT101 is cleared and its high fives all around?  Is it because the dusty bottles have had ample time to be found by the public?  Kind of like a statute of limitations?  Do the karma rules not apply to dusties?

 

 

You sir get the big wooden spoon award. I like stirring the pot a bit. Haha

 

The last time I went, I left a case on the shelf.  I’d like to say for folks who say it’s bad karma to trade a bottle here or there... cast the first stone if your innocent and have never done such things.

 

Id like to say publicly... I’m fully against someone clearing a shelf then posting the stuff up for a profit. 
 

[BottledInBond]

42 minutes ago, Bob_Loblaw said:

It would be a rare situation where I would clear a shelf nowadays.  Partly because most coveted bottles are behind counters or lotteried etc . . . Partly for karma.  Partly for cost and to space out purchases and build rapport.  I'd say technically if you are ever buying a bottle with thoughts towards anything other than consumption or gifting you are contributing to the overall problem.  

 

That said, to play devil's advocate in this situation, a few questions just to stir the pot:

 

Isn't the retailer here really the biggest part of the problem?  The good ones get a bottle into 6 good or new customer's hands and build loyalty.  Here, they are incentivizing a case purchase.  15% is crazy on an allocated bourbon case.  For those who said you would leave exactly one bottle behind for the next guy would you really buy 5 at $250 vs all 6 at $255?  

 

Why do we generally consider shelf clearing of newly released allocated products bad, but over in the dusty thread a hoard of 8yr WT101 is cleared and its high fives all around?  Is it because the dusty bottles have had ample time to be found by the public?  Kind of like a statute of limitations?  Do the karma rules not apply to dusties?

 

 

Is the retailer part of the problem? I think they often just don’t know what people will clear a shelf of or not. We focus on this stuff so much, but the reality is that their attention is split with beer, wine, and all the other liquor categories. 
 

I have cleared a couple shelves in the past, but not for a few years now and probably only a couple bottles anyway. I don’t think I ever did a 6 out of 6 clearing, but maybe 2/2 or 3/3. And, if there is a “1 per person” sign or something I totally respect it and don’t try to figure out how to get multiple or anything like that. 

[parksmart]

Then there are us folks who live in regions where nothing allocated seemingly ever hits store shelves at MSRP....... 

 

Only thing I’ve cleared has been marked down bottles at Costco.  These are never anything allocated, and typically running along the lines of larger format bottles that don’t get any love for some reason (or the store is just trying to get the remaining dregs off the sales floor and out of their system).  1L OGD BIB ($15 OTD), 1.75L KC rye and 1.75L 1792 SmB (each were $33 OTD) have been some of the past scores.  As the president of the Dads Club at my kids’ elementary school (this is my last year of what will be 9 years spanning two kids there.....hallelujah!), the largesse is always quickly snapped up by the dads I offer it to who have volunteered their time and labor repeatedly on our kids’ behalf, with some of my neighbors also getting offered a bottle.  
 

While some may argue that me dragging the entire store stock of a case or two of inexpensive bottles to the register is unfair to other shoppers, I see it as good things should happen to good people.  I’m helping good people get a good thing or two.
 

 

[Mattk]

My favorite bottle ever was a 2014 release. Usually if I find one, I buy it instantly. Once I came across three, they had been on the shelf since the original release date. Buying all three may be considered "clearing the shelf" but they are all mine. And I don't feel bad about it. In fact I'd love to do it more often if I could. So I'd say a dusty clear is exempt. Others have obviously had time to buy, and didn't. With that said, if any of these bottles were purchased with profit in mind, then I think that's where the problem exists within the dusty/shelf sitters world. Someone who clears a shelf of new release, low end stuff is probably ok too, because there will be more really soon, and stockings up is ok. Out here it seems to be the OF rye that goes like this. I'd have to imagine that the purchaser won't be back to do it again for a while. Someone who clears a shelf of high end stuff just because it is rare or to resell it gets the bad karma. I have a couple of ryes on my list I'd probably clear out a store of, but probably couldn't ever afford to, if of course the opportunity ever even presented itself.

[PaulO]

I've had the good fortune to find some discontinued items in the past (dusties).  It was never more than a couple.  They had been there literally for years.  I felt like it was a win - win situation.  I was helping the retailer.

[fishnbowljoe]

There was a small bar here one time that was next door to, and affiliated with the small bowing alley next door. Kinda odd considering the bowling alley also had a bar.   Anyway, I used to visit a couple of my bowling buddies at the bowling alley. One time we went next door to have a drink. I asked what the rail bourbon was, and Butch, the owner,  grabbed a tax stamped Walker’s Deluxe. I smiled and said that’s what I wanted. I told him it was a good ole bourbon. He said it didn’t really sell, and he’d sell it to me it if I wanted it. I said sure. He then said he had a couple more bottles in the back that were just taking up space and I could have them too. Again I said sure.   Every once in a while.......

 

Biba! Joe

[mbroo5880i]

17 minutes ago, fishnbowljoe said:

There was a small bar here one time that was next door to, and affiliated with the small bowing alley next door. Kinda odd considering the bowling alley also had a bar.   Anyway, I used to visit a couple of my bowling buddies at the bowling alley. One time we went next door to have a drink. I asked what the rail bourbon was, and Butch, the owner,  grabbed a tax stamped Walker’s Deluxe. I smiled and said that’s what I wanted. I told him it was a good ole bourbon. He said it didn’t really sell, and he’d sell it to me it if I wanted it. I said sure. He then said he had a couple more bottles in the back that were just taking up space and I could have them too. Again I said sure.   Every once in a while.......

 

Biba! Joe

One man's junk is another man's treasure!

[steven s]

if you flip, you are part of the problem.

 

[The Black Tot]

It boils down to intent. 

 

If you're gonna drink it all over time, then clearing a shelf is not the problem. It is the same impact as if you bought the same number of bottles individually, since once you're X (your own number) bottles deep, you'll stop buying and the shelf will fill again.

 

If you know at the time of purchase that you're gonna flip one or more of the bottles, then yes, you're part of the problem.

 

I have sold a few bottles when my tastes changed over the long run and I no longer found a valuable bottle to be special (for me), but I have never bought one thinking from the start that I wouldn't drink it.

 

Who knows - without all the shelf clearing, maybe we wouldn't be seeing 500% distillery expansions these last few years, which in the end will usher in Glut 2.0.