Richnimrod Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 9:07 PM, Kepler said: I agree with fosmith. At least all the information that I'm aware of indicates that entry proof for all WT bourbon products was changed to 115 in 2006 (source: rarebird101's blog page). I'm not disputing the label on that RRSiB but ... well I guess it is possible that WT is experimenting with some lower entry proof distillate ( ? ) If so, that is news to me and in my opinion major great news to Turkeyheads like myself. Wish we could hear from Bruce, Eddie, or DJ at Rarebird101 on the scoop here. We need a Bat-signal here on SB (or I guess it would be a "Turkey-signal " hehe). Hmmm. ..."major great news"... Hmmm. Maybe. IMHO (which is not worth more than any other humble opinion on this forum, I'm sure) the barrel entry proof does indeed affect the finished product to some extent, and can certainly result in a lower barrel-proof after aging... particularly in WT's case, if the aging is done in one of the 'valley' rickhouses, where temp and humidity already contribute to lower final barrel proof. IMO the difference between the proof when taken off the still and the barrel entry proof is just as important, or more so. If the distillate is taken off at a lower proof, I believe the results can be 'richer', because of less-complete distillation leaving more of the chemical mash components (contributing to flavor) intact or at least partially so. If a higher ABV is achieved off the still, then the distillate is 'watered' to a lower barrel entry proof, the result is not the same as drawing from the still at-or-near the desired barrel entry proof. Certainly 'watering' before barrel entry is the common practice in the industry, the resulting liquid will interact with the barrel on a more broad basis given the molecular size difference between water and alcohol, resulting in a 'better' finished product after aging. If one placed 200-proof distillate in a barrel and aged it for 5-years alongside a more typical 120-prroof mixture also for 5-years, assuming the barrels to be identical (they never are truly identical, of course), the two finished products would show considerably different traits, I'm sure. Hopefully, someone on this forum with a deeper understanding of the Bourbon distilling and aging chemistry can correct and/or embellish my poor attempt here. Please do! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz June Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Richnimrod said: Hmmm. ..."major great news"... Hmmm. Maybe. IMHO (which is not worth more than any other humble opinion on this forum, I'm sure) the barrel entry proof does indeed affect the finished product to some extent, and can certainly result in a lower barrel-proof after aging... particularly in WT's case, if the aging is done in one of the 'valley' rickhouses, where temp and humidity already contribute to lower final barrel proof. IMO the difference between the proof when taken off the still and the barrel entry proof is just as important, or more so. If the distillate is taken off at a lower proof, I believe the results can be 'richer', because of less-complete distillation leaving more of the chemical mash components (contributing to flavor) intact or at least partially so. If a higher ABV is achieved off the still, then the distillate is 'watered' to a lower barrel entry proof, the result is not the same as drawing from the still at-or-near the desired barrel entry proof. Certainly 'watering' before barrel entry is the common practice in the industry, the resulting liquid will interact with the barrel on a more broad basis given the molecular size difference between water and alcohol, resulting in a 'better' finished product after aging. If one placed 200-proof distillate in a barrel and aged it for 5-years alongside a more typical 120-prroof mixture also for 5-years, assuming the barrels to be identical (they never are truly identical, of course), the two finished products would show considerably different traits, I'm sure. Hopefully, someone on this forum with a deeper understanding of the Bourbon distilling and aging chemistry can correct and/or embellish my poor attempt here. Please do! At least in the past, the idea with Booker's was that water was never added during the process. 125 off the still, 125 in the barrel, and bottled uncut at barrel proof. I think the results at 6 and 7 years are pretty good, so I'd agree that there is something to your theory. As far as I know, most of the majors bring the white dog off the still at around 140, so at least some water would be required to get it to barrel entry proof. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourbon Boiler Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 9:07 PM, Kepler said: I agree with fosmith. At least all the information that I'm aware of indicates that entry proof for all WT bourbon products was changed to 115 in 2006 (source: rarebird101's blog page). I'm not disputing the label on that RRSiB but ... well I guess it is possible that WT is experimenting with some lower entry proof distillate ( ? ) If so, that is news to me and in my opinion major great news to Turkeyheads like myself. Wish we could hear from Bruce, Eddie, or DJ at Rarebird101 on the scoop here. We need a Bat-signal here on SB (or I guess it would be a "Turkey-signal " hehe). Thanks to both of you for the quick replies. (And I'll be on the lookout for the turkey signal. Or at least the squawk calls.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 The other thing to keep in mind is that water and ethanol extract different flavors from the oak which is why lower entry proof is desired my some distillers. More wood sugars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegoz Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Nice, informative thread as always. I just picked up a Binny's pick of RR SiB that I'm excited to crack open soon. I don't chase the hypey allocated stuff that was readily available when I got into bourbon 15 years ago and just want to immerse myself in nice value pours, and after recently enjoying the heck out of an old bottle of Rare Breed I had sitting around I've decided to dig a bit deeper into the WT/RR line. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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