Gillman Posted September 12, 2004 Author Share Posted September 12, 2004 Bitters can't go bad. I think the burned taste may have come from using extra-aged whiskey. Try it again, Dane, with a younger bourbon or blended whiskey. You can't go wrong, the way you made it (whiskey choice apart) sounds faultless.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Don't know what "dash" means to you, but literally one drop of bitters is enough. Sounds like too much bitters to me.I also agree with Gary. Use a more moderate whiskey. It's worth another try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8erdane Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 When I said dash, I did mean drops, two of them and I guess that must have been too much as you say. I may have to experiment in the morning (after working all night of course) and try again. And as Gary has suggested, will use a little younger whiskey. I'll review notes to see if there are any younger recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneCubeOnly Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 I usually go pretty heavy on the bitters, but I'm trying to cut the sweetness of Martini & Rossi vermouth. I can't imagine bitters going bad. Try a midshelf bourbon you enjoy drinking straight with the same recipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 All this talk made me thirsty for a manhattan so I mixed one up from Rittenhouse Rye 100. It was sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyeCatcher Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 All this talk made me thirsty for a manhattan so I mixed one up from Rittenhouse Rye 100. It was sublime. I love a good Manhattan and by "good Manhattan" I pretty much mean one I made myself. Unless you've found once of those rare bartenders that has a CLUE, they'll screw it up.My favorite recipe is actually made with Jim Beam Rye -- very snappy and peppery, and a nice complement to the sweetness of the other ingredients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted September 20, 2004 Author Share Posted September 20, 2004 Here is one I just made myself (agreed, always the best kind). One ounce Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye (from F #840, a very good sample), one ounce Lot 40 (thus a blending of a well-aged rye and a younger, sharper one), half-ounce Nouilly Prat red vermouth, dash Peychaud's bitters, single red cherry. No ice. This has to be one of the world's great drinks but it seems to come into its own when made with good rye whiskey. In my version, the rye tangs come through (age and youth well-balanced) but are moderated by the fruity vermouth and counter-pointed by the further tangs of the bitters.I can see Bulleit being the perfect straight whiskey to make a deep red Manhattan, by the way.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeNell Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Darn, I knew I shoulda brought Manhattan makin's to the Gazebo. I coulda tried your Lot 40 secret ingredient. If anybody has a hard time getting the Vya, just lemme know. I can ship it without the same hassle as "the hard stuff." PM me if you need some help. Regarding bitters, I love using the Fee Brothers much better than Angostura. Hard to find. I traipsed around Jamaica Queens through a rough neighborhood to find a coffee house wholesaler that sales it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musher Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Regarding bitters, I love using the Fee Brothers much better than Angostura. Hard to find. I traipsed around Jamaica Queens through a rough neighborhood to find a coffee house wholesaler that sales it. Any thoughts about Peychaud's Bitters compared to these two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted September 22, 2004 Author Share Posted September 22, 2004 Thanks for your comments, and Jeff's, re Lot 40. Truth is, another rye combination in a Manhattan would work as well. Say, Jim Beam Rye and Saz 18 year old rye 50/50. The thing is to get a balance in the main component.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markw Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 I can see Bulleit being the perfect straight whiskey to make a deep red Manhattan, by the way. Gary I've experimented with Manhattans, and I agree about the Bulleit. I made some Manhattans with Van Winkle Rye reserve and I thought that the result was big and ponderous. The straight rye was better, I thought. It reminded me of a big fat intense wine that is waaay too low in acidity. That leaves the flavors mushy and unfocused. I'm drinking a Manhattan now with one ounce Bulleit, a third ounce of Noilly Prat vermouth, and two drops of Peychaud's. I don't have a cherry, but I can see how it would fit. This is a lot better. The brighter flavors of the younger whiskey fit in better. Then, I added just a little Van Winkle Rye. Now, it is perfect. Ahhhh. I've been tasting wines continuously for 25 years, and I never thought I'd ever drink a manhattan. Then I discovered bourbon and straightbourbon.com! Thanks to all, and to Gary for pointing out how interesting the Manhattan can be. -Mark W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeNell Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I find the Fee Brothers old fashioned bitters to be the most aromatic and flavorful. I get much more pungent clove and cinnamon. The Angostura has the most bitterness. I find the Peychaud to be the lightest and sweetest of the three. Fee also makes orange bitters and peach bitters. Quite nice, as well. I often throw them into cocktails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted September 23, 2004 Author Share Posted September 23, 2004 Interesting. Orange bitters, which I have never tried, are the classic original additive to a gin martini. Whenever you read those 1940's-1960's manuals on drink by louche members of the British upper class, invariably they say (you can envision the langour), "orange bitters WERE de rigeur but seem lately to have been dispensed with". Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeNell Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 You are dead on, my friend! Exciting to know there are other cocktail maniacs out here. Actually the Rob Roy, Robert Burns, Alaska, Bijou, plus many more were made with orange bitters. The only thing I don't like about the peach bitters Fee makes is that they add some artificial flavoring, but the orange is all natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 From, "An Encyclopedia of Drinks and Drinking", by Frederic Martin (Coles, 1978): "...two ladies, mother and daughter, came into (a) bar. They ordered and said father would be along and he would like a very dry Dry Martini. John [Perosino, of the May Fair Bar, London] made one (he is good) and when the man had finished it he said he would have another, but drier. John did his waive-the-vermouth-bottle-act when the shadow of it falls on the gin. Excellent, said the man but he would like one more - and this time really dry. This nonplussed John, but he had a brainwave. Instead of leaving out the vermouth, he omitted the gin. 'Now that's what I call a wonderful martini', commented the customer. How can you win?". Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcheer Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 I seem to recall an anecdote about Winston Churchill, who said he just "glanced at a bottle of vermouth from across the room".Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakegz Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 i have to say i had my very first Manhattan last night and i was kind of dissapointed. Ill blame the bartender on this one because when i ordered it, he looked kinda bewildered as if he had trouble recalling the recipe. i had him use Wild Turkey 101 but i didnt see what type of vermouth or bitters he used. I have to say though that it got much tastier as i got to the bottom of the glass as the cherry was giving off some nice sweetness. Before that though, it just tasted like diluted bourbon. That good flavor that arrived halfway through the drink is motivating me to give it another try tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneCubeOnly Posted October 2, 2004 Share Posted October 2, 2004 You really have to make your own. It's pretty much one of those "if you want it done right do it yourself" kind of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeNell Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 I often find that "uneducated" bartenders will shake the hell out of anything so you often ended up with an overly diluted cocktail. Maybe that's what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakegz Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I seem to recall an anecdote about Winston Churchill, who said he just "glanced at a bottle of vermouth from across the room".Tim haha, i remember a similiar churchill anecdote syaing that simply passing the cork from the vermouth bottle to the gin was sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Gary Regan is a big Manhattan fan. When I saw him recently, he had the bartender make him a Manhattan using EWSB 94 (it was a Heaven Hill event), then he took the bitters bottle and added close to 20 shakes of bitters, rather than the usual one or two. It was quite tasty and pretty soon he was making them for everyone that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillman Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Sounds like there was no vermouth in the house. If there was (and it was used) 20 shakes of bitters would, by my lights, ruin a great drink. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Vermouth was used in its normal proportions. Try it some time, it was good. (But, you know, sometimes you just get caught up in the moment too.)On the other hand, at TRU recently (me dropping name of trendiest restaurant in Chicago) I had a Woodford Reserve manhattan (they were buying) ruined by an over abundance of vermouth, to the point where I couldn't even tell the drink contained whiskey. It was also shaken, not stirred, a mistake for that type of drink, in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakegz Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 yeah, when they put too much vermouth in it, the drink really loses its solid foundation. it like having an inch of cake and 3 inches of frosting. it's also pretty bad when they shake it up because it makes the drink come out very mushy and it looks like a mudslide, not the classic and classy manhattan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 There seems to be a tendancy at trendy, upscale bars these days to shake everything. What's up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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