How do we feel about the Stagg line on Ebay?

[halpap]

I don't think ebay cares that much about this issue and they won't do a thing to stop it unless the authorities require them to do so. I also think the relevant authorities don't care enough to lean on ebay to stop allowing such auctions. I am not sure where I come out on this but to the extent it is done, I would rather the laws banning these practices would come off of the books. It is a bit unseemly to have the law ignored in this way.

As an aside, these law have nothing to do with underage drinking and everything to do with tax collecting.

[voigtman]

wait a minute.....isn't this what a lot of people do on this site?? go to liquor stores and buy up all the old and rare stock as much as they can usually find????

Well, no -- and yes. I've never bought a bottle of bourbon with the intent of making a profit. When I found 4 Hirsch 20s last December, I sold and/or traded 3 of them to others here for the value I paid, which was less than half what they'd sold for just before that on Ebay. I didn't profit off anybody here.

As for the old/rare stock -- well, yeah, I buy it after everyone that has come before me (in the case of old stock, for, maybe, the last 30 years) has had their crack at it. Then you know what I do with it? I drink it, or share it with others. And if I ever do sell it or trade it with someone here, the basis will be what I paid -- as with the Hirsch above -- not its current Ebay value.

In short, I think the only folks who need to be in bourbon for the money are the distilleries, distributors and retailers.

Way back in post 33677 (August 28, 2004), I posted this here at sb.com:

start quote

I was on vacation earlier this month, in South Bend, Indiana, and my wife suggested we walk around in the city center (I could joke about why this is a high point of a vacation there, but I won't ). Anyway, happened to pass by a store named City Wide Liquors, so we stopped in. Very glad we did: they had 1 bottle of Pappy 23 (about $245), several bottles of Hirsch 16 (gold wax seal; forgot to check the price ) and 3 bottles of Hirsch 20. The Hirsch 20's were $99.99 each (and I think 6 bucks sales tax), so I grabbed one. Even better, my wife said to do it, and put it on the plastic, so who am I to refuse such a suggestion! . So, if anyone wants one of the 2 remaining bottles, the address is 109 East Jefferson Blvd., South Bend, IN. There is a web site for City Wide Liquors (with more contact info http://www.citywideliquors.com), but, like most retailer web sites, it says nothing about the good stuff on the shelves and is rarely updated.

Cheers, Ed

end quote

Tim can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think these are the Hirsch 20's he rescued last December and found good homes for. Whatever the case, my opinion is that he did exactly the right things with them (trading and reselling for just what he paid) and my only regret now is that I didn't snag another bottle last summer, especially since my wife says I should have! Evidently, they had more than the two left, which is why I didn't grab a second bottle. But Tim did the exactly right, honorable thing and I applaud him for it! He is a generous guy. Having been on the receiving end of this kind of upstanding behavior by another sb.comer, I have to say this is one of the best things about this community.

As for ebay, I have never had any dealings with them and don't intend to, though I occasionally follow posted links just to see what is happening. I was under the impression that alcohol sales are basically sub rosa (the old collectibles ruse) and can be shut off anytime ebay wants to start enforcing its own rules. Personally, I'm not selling or buying any alcohol through them, but don't want to see true collectibles removed from the market. So, I favor letting that sleeping dog lie. Oh, and that store in South Bend still had some Hirsch 16s (gold foil this time) last month. Also Old Pogue, RR 1972 and a Pappy 23. Not much else exciting, though. Ed V.

[TNbourbon]

That was, indeed, the store, Ed, and I left two bottles of the Hirsch 20 (I was on my way home after family Christmas, and didn't have more funds) on the shelf, which must have wound up elsewhere.

Incidentally, when I emailed CityWide before physically stopping in, they responded that they didn't have any more Hirsch 20.

Several of us thank you for the tip.

[LeNell]

As a retailer who pays an incredible amount of taxes and licensing fees for the "privilege" to trade in the booze business, I sometimes raise my eyebrows at ebay sales of bottles that are still available and not necessarily "collectible" truly vintage bottles. It always makes me hesitant to sale my limited bottles to folks that I don't know. I really want to sale them to folks who are into drinkin' them and relishin' the experience, not resellin' 'em on ebay with dollar signs in their eyes. Trading them for other bottles is another thing.

[Blackkeno]

Very interesting thread.

I have bought about 10 bottles of whisk(e)y on ebay. Apart from a millenium bottling, all have been out of production for more than 15 years and most for over 30. I'm thankful because on most, I got some pretty good deals--the others... well I wanted them real bad and had no known options.

I've never sold on ebay, and doubt I would. When I have found rare items while traveling, or through tips, I've bought what I could (including about half as gifts) and spread the word about the rest.

One of these items I was looking for for years. Several fellow spirits fans were aghast that a mutual friend offered to sell me one for about 3 times what he paid for it. I was appreciative although I didn't take him up on it. I knew if I had two bottles of it, I would not have wanted to part with either.

I'm uncomfortable with lying in any form, and this seems to be the case with Stagg on ebay. On the other hand, I resent laws which constrain free markets (not the laws that require high taxes). Under Nevada Law, I can "import" one gallon of Spirit into the state monthly. I don't try to get around duties from overseas. But I do ignore laws in other juristictions which might prevent my transactions.

I think ebay is a good thing for collectible bottlings. I'm glad it helps others get current bottlings they might not obtain otherwise, but in this regard, I'm uncomfortable with the means.

I love the previous idea of affordable "buy it now" pricing. If I had ready access to Stagg, and could word the listing ethically, I'd do that every couple weeks for a while.

Just my thoughts,

John

[NorCalBoozer]

it's not just the Stagg......

Pappy 20's now going for over $100 and a 23 just sold for $450

yikes.

"drink em while you got em!"

[TNbourbon]

Just a note -- in a pair of Bowling Green, KY store, where prices have been reasonable though not rock-bottom over the few years I've been stopping in, the Spring '05 Stagg was stacked in both bottle rows and 3-packs to the back of the shelves when I passed on my way home from the Festival today @ $69.95 a bottle. That's nearly 20% over what I bought it at shortly after release here in TN. If Ebay -- and the folks apparently buying it to resell it there -- isn't providing upward price pressure on this largest-ever Stagg production, what is?

[OneCubeOnly]

I saw the shelf-full of $69.95 Stagg at Chuck's as well and thought the same thing. I don't know if you happened to hit their other location (the "Chuck Evans" one on the north-side of town), but interestingly enough it was a more reasonable $49.95 there.

I bought one of the $49.95 ones and a bottle of RHF--the lady at the register saw the RHF decanter and said "I've never seen this one before" and followed up her own comment with "people on this side of town don't buy much of the expensive stuff...we sell mostly beer."

[pepcycle]

Was this prompted by the Blind Sampling?

[OneCubeOnly]

Was this prompted by the Blind Sampling?

This was actually before the contest. The Blind Sampling was my first taste of RHF.

I thought I had a ringer with it though, as Drew K. had brought some 1970's-era Old Bardstown to the Gazebo which tasted exactly like RHF (at least to my taste-memory). Needless to say I missed that one!

[TNbourbon]

For better or worse (or, just indifference), I note that all four of the current Antique Collection bottlings have already hit eBay -- which, being current bottlings, is against eBay's written policy, which seems to differ from its actual policy.

Personally, I find it a bit irritating that I can't yet get it in a Tennessee retail store, but anyone willing to break eBay auction rules and any applicable local shipping laws can.

[BSS]

If some of these Staggs end up going for much over $100, you will see me buying at $50 at a local store and selling for double that on ebay. I just bought a house and have other bills; if I can double an investment that easy, an extra $50 per bottle is a lot of money to me.

[schlep]

I solved a similar situation by doing the three hour round trip to secure the Antique Collection when it hit the shelves in Louisville. As far as the eBay lisitings, there will always be opportunists who push the envelope to turn a quick buck.

schlep

[ThomasH]

I have sold a few Stagg bottles on ebay and never even came close to getting 200.00 per bottle. Almost all of the bidding comes from overseas,particularly Germany,Australia, and New Zealand. It looks Like William Larue Weller barrel strenght is the next big thing. It is already hitting ebay.

thomas

[smokinjoe]

Tim:

Your wait is over. Antique Collection hit at least 1 Nashville store today. Sic em dog!!

JOE

[TNbourbon]

Got 5 even a little closer to home -- but at $65.54 after tax . Were it much higher, I believe I'd have gotten 1!

[SBOmarc]

Having received a bottle of 141.2 from my wife for Christmas, I asked her what she had to pay. Her response was a bit less than a bottle of Blantons which sells out here for just under $50. She had seen the ebay auction and decided that searching my favorite spots for this bottle was more to her liking. After reading Mr. Weber's post I too wish to raise a well deserved toast for keeping to his word. As long as some of the BT products continue to make there way all the way out here to SoCal, I will continue to make my purchases the old fashioned way, and that means no ebay for bourbon.