BarItemsPlus1 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 On my usual search for available bourbons, I have come across a place that has listed on their 'drinks' menu Pappy Van Winkle 30yr old :skep: Anyone know anything about this??? I am trying to find the place again so when I do I will post the link.Cheers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProofPositive Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Anyone know anything about this??? I am trying to find the place again so when I do I will post the link. Cheers!!I have not heard of it.....but there have been stranger things turn up in this world.When/If you do find the place and it is for real, let me know. It won't take me long to pack a bag and get to the airport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virus_Of_Life Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 I have never heard anything about that, their website oldripvanwinkle.com does not list it and for that matter I've never heard of ANY bourbon being aged anywhere near 30 years! I think it is boloney, a misprint perhaps supposed to be 20 year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarItemsPlus1 Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 I am sceptical about this though...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barturtle Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 IIRC Julian has said that he has never tasted his whiskey at an age any older than 23yo. I seriously doubt he would put out a product with tasting it first. Most likely a typo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennan77 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 IIRC Julian has said that he has never tasted his whiskey at an age any older than 23yo. I seriously doubt he would put out a product with tasting it first. Most likely a typo.This brings up a question I was asked the other day when showing off my bottle of PVW23. My friend asked, "well, why not longer?". Can the whisky just not take any more aging? Has it reached its absolute peak, or have they just not tried any longer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarItemsPlus1 Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Has it reached its absolute peak, or have they just not tried any longer?Brennan absolutly not!! The reason is due to the age of bourbon as a whiskey, meaning bourbon hasn't been able to be kept for this long, ie. supply/demand.There may be some casks hiding in a wharehouse somewhere that are older than 23yrs but I really wouldn't know this for sure, I think it would be highly unlikely.Actually come to think of it....I know that there is a bottle of 'Classic Cask' 35yr old whiskey, don't know if it's bourbon or whiskey though??Also I was just wondering, and someone here may be able to cladify, when the age is stated as with 'Scotch' are their indeed older whiskies that go into a bottling of for example PVW 23yr?? -As the age statement on scotch is the youngest whisky in the blend/vatting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNbourbon Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 You're referring to, I believe, Bourbon Bar in Washington D.C. It has been called to Julian's attention. He has refuted its existence, and stated he would contact the bar management. Either the bar employed an overzealous (and/or ignorant) copywriter, or they're lying bastards:smiley_acbt: . If it's the latter, I think $150 a drink might constitute fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barturtle Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Also I was just wondering, and someone here may be able to cladify, when the age is stated as with 'Scotch' are their indeed older whiskies that go into a bottling of for example PVW 23yr?? -As the age statement on scotch is the youngest whisky in the blend/vatting.As with scotch, the age statement is the youngest whiskey in the bottle. However, Julian has stated that the most recent batch had just barely reached its 23rd birthday, and I suspect that the previous batches would have been quite close that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedVette Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 You're referring to, I believe, Bourbon Bar in Washington D.C. It has been called to Julian's attention. He has refuted its existence, and stated he would contact the bar management. Either the bar employed an overzealous (and/or ignorant) copywriter, or they're lying bastards:smiley_acbt: . If it's the latter, I think $150 a drink might constitute fraud.It's places like this (http://www.bourbondc.com/bourbon-drinks.pdf) that have trained me to always ask "how much is?" for any exotic drink. Sometimes I get nasty looks from the beertender, but I want to know if I am about to be leaned over a barrell. I thought that the $36 I paid for a shot of Pappy 23 was high, but $90 is highway robbery. On the flip side they say they have ORVW 107/15 for $9 a shot, a relative bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boone Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 As with scotch, the age statement is the youngest whiskey in the bottle. However, Julian has stated that the most recent batch had just barely reached its 23rd birthday, and I suspect that the previous batches would have been quite close that as well.Bourbon...If the label states 10 years old...the bourbon in that bottle cannot be "younger" than ten years old. You can add bourbon that is aged "older" than the age statement...but never under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRenner Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 This brings up a question I was asked the other day when showing off my bottle of PVW23. My friend asked, "well, why not longer?". Can the whisky just not take any more aging? Has it reached its absolute peak, or have they just not tried any longer? I think there are two reasons - well three if you include the cost of keeping inventory that long.First, the longer the whiskey ages, the less there is due to evaporation - the so-called "angel's share." I think that someone posted how little there was in the 23yo barrels - maybe less than 1/4?And then, yes, you can get too much woody, dry, tannic, bitter flavors from the wood. Since American straight whiskeys (other than corn) are aged in new oak, they cannot be kept in the barrel as long as scotch is, which is aged in used oak.Occasionally you will read a review of a whiskey that has been kept too long in the barrel, at least in the opinion of the reviewer. Recently, Chuck Cowdery wroteLast year at WhiskeyFest Chicago, Dave Pickerell did a presentation (he's the distiller at Maker's) in which one of the things he gave us to taste was Maker's at, I think, ten years old. Maybe it was twelve.Whatever it is, they are right not to sell it. If you doubt that 'older is not always better,' this will convince you. ... It was bitter. Aside from the US-marketed Van Winkle products, it has been primarily the Japanese that favored decades-old bourbons. HH has provided most of them, I think.Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarItemsPlus1 Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Good work Redvette!! So they are full of :shithappens: Well I'm glad I brought it to everyones attention, and I hope Julian pulls their supply!! Cheers all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowdery Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I met the guys who run Bourbon Bar the last time I was in Bardstown. They're nice, young guys and very enthusiastic about the subject, though they are just learning their way. I'm prepared to believe it was an honest mistake.As for anything older than Pappy 23, HH has a 25-year-old they sell in Japan.The thing about these very old bourbons--and 23-25 years is very, very old for a bourbon--is that they have to be almost artifically retarded to get that old without becoming too woody and, even more than woody, acrid and sooty. I characterize them as tasting the way you smell after you've been camping for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProofPositive Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I characterize them as tasting the way you smell after you've been camping for a week.Aside from the US-marketed Van Winkle products, it has been primarily the Japanese that favored decades-old bourbons. HH has provided most of them, I think-JeffMaybe they have no camping in Japan. They may not know the taste is the same as how we smell after a week in the outdoors.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 There was an HH 29 yo in Japan that I had years ago and there are a few 25 yo bourbons over there at the moment.Re: Angel's share is estimated at 1.75-2% per year for scotch. Some have to be much less based on a few of the single casks I have which are 30+ years old and still have bottle numbers in the 180's. out of 240 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarItemsPlus1 Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 I would be interested in tasting these older bourbons, but it seems by the tasting notes left here that bourbon becomes more 'harsh'(for lack of a better word) than what scotch does.I have found in general that the older the scotch the EASIER it goes down....Ok, what I will do is do a side by side of a scotch and bourbon at same Alc/Vol and age and take notes, more focusing on the 'throat burn' and over woody flavours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camduncan Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Apparently there are still some Pappy 20yo bottles in Australia....I'm not sure if this is old enough for you though?But at $400 each, it may be cheaper to import one from Binnys (even when you do pay Govt taxes to Customs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarItemsPlus1 Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 But at $400 each....... Thanks Cam but for that price Bar Items can order in 3 nearly 4 bottles... and I am a little under that price above with my prices also.... Here is what I will start my sampling with, just have to find a partner for the PVW 20yr....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Troy, I did do a review of one of the older Japanese only bourbons awhile back. You can read it here if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarItemsPlus1 Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Cheers...thanks for that!!Do you have notes on the EW23 yr old?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camduncan Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I'm sure there used to be tasting notes on it in the Premium Bourbon forum.... but I can't find them anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFC Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Here are some tastingnotes for EW23: http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2248&highlight=Evan+Williams+23The last couple of days I have tasted EW23 side by side with Vintage 1976 (25 Yrs old) and EC18. It's easy to detect the kinship between EW23 and EC18, the Vintage 1976 is a completely different story. It has been speculated that this might be Willett-whiskey. I wouldn't be able to tell since I don't have anything to compare with, but I would be really surprised if it originated from HH. As far as taste is concerned my vote goes to EW23. It seems as if the Single Barrel EC18 varies a lot, and my bottle seems to be one that should bave been bottled a couple of years earlier. The nose is really nice but the finnish is extremely tannic and bitter. The EW23 is far superior, very balanced and very potent. A bit like a 40 Year old cognac on steroids...As other have stated the Vintage 1976 is amazingly fruity for its age. I like it a lot, but compared to the EW23 it appears a bit bleak./Mats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVB Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I did a less formal review of it here. Oddly enough I also was smoking an RyJ just as SSbourbon1 did in his review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedmans Brorsa Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Yes, the Vintage 1976 is surprisingly potent for its age but to me it is mainly interesting as a specimen. After a lengthy break I tried it two days ago together with JD single barrel and my most recent Bourbon acquisition, Ridgemont reserve. Even though pleasant, the VB was easily outclassed by its young rivals, both younger than 10 years. What I have most against older whiskies, excess oakiness apart, is how they lose their whiskey character. Many years ago I read, don´t remember where, that when whisky reached 30 years of age, in most cases it became Cognacified. This theory was empirically verified by letting experts do blindtastings including really old whiskies and Cognacs of similar age. Apparently, these experts were unable to differ between the whiskies and cognacs. I cannot say that I´m surprised. the finnish is extremely tannic and bitter. /Mats Well, some might be. Many Finns I have met, though, have been easy, outgoing personalities. Your view is somewhat stereotyped, I think. Could cause a diplomatic crisis with our neighbour in the east, y´know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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