Pappy Van Winkle 30yr old.....????

[PFC]

Apparently, these experts were unable to differ between the whiskies and cognacs. I cannot say that I´m surprised.

Me neither. I am of course very fond of aged cognacs, so there's the connection. Two of my all time favourite spirits are Delamain Vesper and Pierre Ferrand Abel.

Well, some might be. Many Finns I have met, though, have been easy, outgoing personalities. Your view is somewhat stereotyped, I think. Could cause a diplomatic crisis with our neighbour in the east, y´know.

LOL... well I haven't seen any Finns sneeking around this board so I might get away with it this time. Anyway, I have never heard anyone call Finns tannic before, so it really doesn't fit the definition of a stereotype, does it?

I do however agree with you on JDSB. I have the Silver Select version and it is pure candy.

/Mats

[Hedmans Brorsa]

Anyway, I have never heard anyone call Finns tannic before, so it really doesn't fit the definition of a stereotype, does it?:p/Mats

Touché!

[Virus_Of_Life]

It's places like this (http://www.bourbondc.com/bourbon-drinks.pdf) that have trained me to always ask "how much is?" for any exotic drink. Sometimes I get nasty looks from the beertender, but I want to know if I am about to be leaned over a barrell. I thought that the $36 I paid for a shot of Pappy 23 was high, but $90 is highway robbery. On the flip side they say they have ORVW 107/15 for $9 a shot, a relative bargain.

I cannot believe some place is selling something as Pappy 30 yo and charging that price for it!!! Absurd! You know there are some rich business men who probably drink it and then brag to their friends about it drink $150 bourbon...

And Man would I love to have a bottle of that EW 23 yo!! Looks nice.

[whiskeymaven]

The evaporation loss would be incredible for a bourbon claiming to be 30 years old. The recent George T. Stagg stat sheet showed something like 56% of the original whiskey was lost to evaporation, and that's only 15 years old. I highly doubt a whiskey could last to a point of quality after 30 hot summers. That's not saying there isn't some 30 year old in the 23, it's just saying it probably couldn't stand on it's own.

[AVB]

Heaven Hill put out a 28 yo in Japan. I had some and while it wasn't the best I've ever drank it did hold up pretty well. I'm sure there is some 30 yo or more in somebodys rickhouse somewhere.

[ThomasH]

I toured Buffalo Trace 2 weeks ago and according to their people, after about 20 years in the barrel, evaporation starts to greatly accelerate due to the fact that the barrels and bung plugs are considerably dried out and the percentage of water content left in the barrel is negligible. They said that in the past year, more than one barrel destined for use in the Pappy 23 brand has turned up completely evaporated with only loose char and dust in the barrel.

Thomas

[pepcycle]

Just add water.

How handy would that be.

[elkdoggydog]

So can someone explain to me how Scotch is able to age for so long? Do they move it to another barrel, or is the char a factor in the deterioration of bourbon barrels?

I probably should know this already.

[monte]

So can someone explain to me how Scotch is able to age for so long? Do they move it to another barrel, or is the char a factor in the deterioration of bourbon barrels?

I probably should know this already.

I'm not an expert, but I think two factors are at work here. One is that the climate in Scotland is very different from Kentucky, and for whatever reason, a barrel in a warehouse in Scotland will slowly go down in proof over time while a barrel in a rickhouse in KY will slowly go up in proof over time. Most bourbon rickhouses are designed to have significant seasonal climate changes and are also designed to have good ventilation, so bourbon seems to age more quickly in KY than in Scotland.

The other factor is that bourbon is aged in new charred white oak barrels, which are supposedly more porous, while scotch is aged in used barrels (often barrels previously used for bourbon), which are often less porous. So, again, bourbon ages more quickly than scotch.

My personal preference is for bourbon between 8 and 12 years, but if the barrels were moved to a cooler spot in the rickhouse after some intial aging, they can last until about 15-20 years and still produce great whiskey. I also happen to like scotch between 10 and 15 years, and I often have a hard time with older scotch unless it's truly magnificent.

There is a lot of personal preference, but many people have this blind notion that more years of aging are always better, and I don't think it's so. The people running the good distilleries know their rickhouses and can get a great whiskey at a variety of ages. While there are differences between older and younger bourbon, I do not automatically pick the older bourbon as better. There are simply too many other factors to take into account, and sometimes a younger whiskey that was properly aged can be much more of a flavorful and exciting whiskey than an older whiskey that might be too mellow or woody.

Cheers,

-monte-

[bobbyc]

They said that in the past year, more than one barrel destined for use in the Pappy 23 brand has turned up completely evaporated with only loose char and dust in the barrel.

If you can't trust the angels, who can you trust?

[bluesbassdad]

I don't care what type of liquor is aged in that barrel in its next life; I want some.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Virus_Of_Life]

They said that in the past year, more than one barrel destined for use in the Pappy 23 brand has turned up completely evaporated with only loose char and dust in the barrel.

Thomas

Maybe this is Pappy's way of telling them that it is time to BBQ. And, oh yeah, use bourbon soaked briquettes!!

[whiskeymaven]

Monte, There is a 52 year old Macallan that entered the bottle at 51.7%. You are absoluetly right that the climate in Kentucky prevents older vintages, and it is not uncommon to see 40 or 50 year old scotch expressions due to the calm Scottish climate. Glenfiddich 40 year(43.6%), Glenlivet(45.05%), Macallan(51.7%), and Laphroaig 40 year(43%) all have expressions of 40 years or more. I would be curious to taste a boubon aged in a scottish climate, or at least one that doesn't reach the 90's in the summer.

[Gillman]

Is it possible casks are topped up with others of the same age, or in other words consolidated to minimise evaporation? This may not be possible under law in the U.S. (for bourbon I mean), but I have always wondered if this may be practiced in Europe for whisky, cognac, etc.

Gary

[AVB]

I had a chance to talk to Dave Stewart of Balvenie about limiting the angel's share by covering or partial exterior wax sealing and he said that they had done some testing on that over the years. Apparently, the results were not up to their standard and nothing further was done in that area.

Also, a majority of scotch that I saw is not stored in the high open rickhouses like bourbon. Laphroaig in particular had some casks stacked 2 high with the bottom row sitting on the dirt and the whole storage building was below sea level.

Is it possible casks are topped up with others of the same age, or in other words consolidated to minimise evaporation? This may not be possible under law in the U.S. (for bourbon I mean), but I have always wondered if this may be practiced in Europe for whisky, cognac, etc.

Gary

[BarItemsPlus1]

Dave Stewart of Balvenie....

& Glenfiddich and Kinnievie(SP?), probably should have said W.Grant

Not to be picky!!:grin:

Little ironic AVB as I have just been chattin to David and I must say he is extremely helpful when it comes to advice and info!! David has my vote!!

[AVB]

I'm sure what you heard is much more up to date as it was at least 4 years ago when I talked to him last.

[BourbonSteve]

Might've been a misprint. I saw some PVW 20 yr old yesterday for $94 and should've bought it but I just bought a bottle of BMH 11 yr old 30 minutes earlier. anyway, I'd try to get my hands on it next time if I were you.

[blue lander]

I was at the Bourbon in Adams Morgan (there's another one in Georgetown) a couple nights ago, and I didn't see a Pappy Van Winkle older than 23 years on the shelf. I assume it must be a typo. Most of their higher priced bottles were almost completely full, either because people aren't dumb enough to pay those prices or because hardly anybody there drinks anything but beer and Jack and Coke (most people go there for the food, I think).

[DrinkyBanjo]

I had my first sample of Pappy Van Winkle 20 yesterday since I opened it back in February. Where I liked it back then I REALLY liked it yesterday. It is definitely too expensive to drink regularly but a couple of buddys I had over yesterday were discussing it so I decided to be a good host and pour out a couple of glasses. Nice stuff.