SW Bourbon List?

[GoodDrinkin]

I have a Weller 19yr old from 2001. Is that SW or BT?

[Rancastle]

Weller 19 is Stitzel/Weller.

[cowdery]

Barton bottles its straight rye under the Fleischmann's name. I don't know where it's available. I have never seen it.

The Rittenhouse BIB (which is the best value in an American whiskey) also is available here in Illinois.

[Virus_Of_Life]

• Very Special Old Fitzgerald 12yo (BHC -- early Louisville label)
  
• Old Fitzgerald BIB (and variants -- e.g., , VOF, VVOF, VEOF, et al) from DSP-KY-16

Tim, does the early Louisvill label look any different? I came across a place that had 5 or 6 of these that were all Louisville labels. IIRC 1 was BHC and the others were not, or it may have been vice versa. They also had 3 BiB and that was easy enough to identify two of them were SW distilled at DSP-KY-16 :cool: . They also had 1 Old Fitz 1849, anyway to tell if that is SW?

This was a nice little place where I found that 1 ORVW15 L'Burg and a few ORVW10s, but none of those were L'burg...

If there is no way to tell on the VSOF then I am just going to leave them because at $38 a pop I don't want to be buy any that isn't SW.

[NorCalBoozer]

Tim, does the early Louisvill label look any different? I came across a place that had 5 or 6 of these that were all Louisville labels. IIRC 1 was BHC and the others were not, or it may have been vice versa. They also had 3 BiB and that was easy enough to identify two of them were SW distilled at DSP-KY-16 :cool: . They also had 1 Old Fitz 1849, anyway to tell if that is SW?

This was a nice little place where I found that 1 ORVW15 L'Burg and a few ORVW10s, but none of those were L'burg...

If there is no way to tell on the VSOF then I am just going to leave them because at $38 a pop I don't want to be buy any that isn't SW.

I'm pretty sure I remember Tim saying the the BHC ones were in fact S/W, while the non BHC's it wasn't really clear.

[Virus_Of_Life]

I'm pretty sure I remember Tim saying the the BHC ones were in fact S/W, while the non BHC's it wasn't really clear.

I don't think it was even that simple.

The non BHC bottles actually appeared to be older, but that may have just been by chance...

[NorCalBoozer]

I don't think it was even that simple.

The non BHC bottles actually appeared to be older, but that may have just been by chance...

ahhh you are probably right about that. sorry to confuse the issue.

[cowdery]

All of the brand expressions in the Bourbon Heritage Collection were created for the collection. I believe Weller Centennial (now Buffalo Trace) and Very Special Old Fitzgerald (now Heaven Hill) are the only ones that continued to be made after the "set" was broken up when Diageo sold three of the five brands in it. There are, of course, old bottles of all five "out there," but the main point is that there can't be any non-BHC bottles (of Weller and Fitz) that are older than the BHC bottles.

[Virus_Of_Life]

There are, of course, old bottles of all five "out there," but the main point is that there can't be any non-BHC bottles (of Weller and Fitz) that are older than the BHC bottles.

Thanks Chuck, those I saw must have just gotten more light to fade the labels and hadn't been dusted as recently...

[Nebraska]

Some of these, specifically one's like Cabin Still pre-92, are they really worth having anyway? I guess what I'm trying to say is Cabin Still, even though it is from SW stock, is it really going to taste that great, or even good?

Now I'm going to say up front that I have never had a pour of Cabin Still, so I'm talking out of my hat somewhat here.

Mark/Nebraska

[NorCalBoozer]

Some of these, specifically one's like Cabin Still pre-92, are they really worth having anyway? I guess what I'm trying to say is Cabin Still, even though it is from SW stock, is it really going to taste that great, or even good?

Now I'm going to say up front that I have never had a pour of Cabin Still, so I'm talking out of my hat somewhat here.

Mark/Nebraska

That depends. Those types of SW can be very hit and miss. They are going to probably younger and I'm assuming maybe not the premium barrels. But there are still plenty of good bottle of Cabin Still, Rebel Yell or Old Fitz BIB. And there are bad ones. I tend to stay away from decanters b/c the seals seem to be not as good over time.

I've had pretty good luck with the older SW Old Fitz's BIB.

I think it's still worth getting them if the price is right, because it gives you more taste knowledge and some of them are very good, if you can get them for the shelf price. So what am i saying? If your a bourbon geek, and you find one for a good price you might as well pick it up to give it a shot.

[Nebraska]

I'm a bourbon geek, but having to make choices. I ran across 4 bottles of Cabin Still, 1 liter, fake tax stamp, upc code, and if you can go by the bottom of the bottle looks like an "89". I bought 1, but really wanted to get home to do some research before considering buying the others, $13.49 for the bottle, before tax.

I am definitely going back, but my wallet is aching already. I picked up 12 ER 101/10, OW Antique 107 and WT RR 101. I'm going back for a WT12 that I left and am thinking I may as well get the other Cabin Stills while I am there.

If nothing else, would the Cabin Still make a good base for an attempt at casking?

Mark/Nebraska

[NorCalBoozer]

yeah, if you have the opportunity to try one of the Cabin Stills first, thats what I would do, then you would know wether you want the other 3.

Im sure it would be good for casking, Dougdog or Gillman know more about that than I do. I know Doug has a vatting that is a mixture of quite a few old bourbons and it taste very good.

right know i have a barrel that is all WT Rye. I haven't tried mixing stuff together yet , but it seems the results can be very good.

sounds like some good finds there!

[Nebraska]

I popped open the Cabin Still and considered writing some tasting notes. The tasting notes were going to begin with I got a STRONG aroma of Curry/anise, a VERY pleasing aroma...I'm thinking wow this is great!

Just then my wife walked by and asked what I was doing and I remarked how wonderful the nose was on this bourbon. As she was walking away she said, "you do realize 20 minutes ago you added curry powder to the chicken on the stove and I saw you wipe what was spilled off with your hand".

Humm...

Mark/Nebraska

[gr8erdane]

I can understand a reluctance on the old decanters but I did get an Old Cabin Still decanter off eBay a year or so ago that I find to be very nice whiskey. The cork disintegrated when I opened it but it had stayed reasonably intact enough to seal in all the goodness with no harshness left. I believe it was in a Ducks Unlimited decanter in the same style as the SW Irish series. (Not bad for a ten dollar bid back before the snipers started bushwhacking me.)

[NorCalBoozer]

I can understand a reluctance on the old decanters but I did get an Old Cabin Still decanter off eBay a year or so ago that I find to be very nice whiskey. The cork disintegrated when I opened it but it had stayed reasonably intact enough to seal in all the goodness with no harshness left. I believe it was in a Ducks Unlimited decanter in the same style as the SW Irish series. (Not bad for a ten dollar bid back before the snipers started bushwhacking me.)

yeah I prefer to stick to bottles if I can. I've had a few bad corks on some old bottles but the bourbon was still great as well. Most of the old stuff I've bought and tasted has been well worth it.

[Sijan]

[*]Very Special Old Fitzgerald 12yo (BHC -- early Louisville label)

Following up on a question from a month or two ago - is there a way to distinguish an "early" Louisville label from a "later" Louisville label? I have two bottles of VSOF12 that appear identical - both have Louisville labels ("Distilled, aged and bottle by Old Fitzgerald Distillery, Inc. / Louisville, Jefferson County, Kentucky") and BHC seals.

UPC for both is 880076 22640

In very small font on the bottom right corner of the front label, there is a code: SL 16.905.01.00

On the back label, there is a similar code in very small font in the bottom left corner: SL 27.905.01.00

On the bottle, below the back label there is a code in grey font: HMO21971.

The 2 is offset a bit lower than the other figures so that it appears as HMO/2/1971. I'm not sure if the O is the letter O or a zero.

So, do these bottles contain Stitzel-Weller whiskey?

Thanks,

Dan

[TimmyBoston]

Where are the current incarnations of Pappy 15 and 20 from? From SW or another distillery? If they are from somewhere else is there a way to tell where my bottle(s) from?

And if they are from SW why are the newer 23's from somewhere else?

Thanks all.

[Sijan]

Tim,

The current Pappy 15 & 20 are S-W whiskey.

What do you mean when you say Pappy 23 is from somewhere else? It is bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort - as all Van Winkle bourbons have been for several years now - from S-W stock.

Cheers,

Dan

[Barrel_Proof]

Lest there be any confusion, some of the bourbon bottled as VanWinkle has -- from at least as early as the green glass Pappys -- included whiskey not distilled by S-W. Today, as well, the product line includes non-S-W bourbon.

It's also a myth that all VanWinkles have been wheaters. I recommend to all the healthy use of the search function on this site. The histories of the various VanWinkle bottlings have been discussed ad nauseum here in the past.

[Sijan]

A bit of reading comprehension is in order. The abbreviated version of my quote above is taken out of context and interpreted incorrectly because of the use of the ellipses. The clause in between the dashes comes after "bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort" and not "from S-W stock," thereby incorporating the former but not the latter. Thus, "all" referred to all recent Van Winkle bourbons being bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort, not necessarily all being S-W whiskey.

I'm well aware that the first batch of Pappy 23 was not S-W whiskey or even wheated whiskey. In addition, my understanding is that the more recent ORVW 10 yrs are not S-W, and that the Lot B is no longer being produced from S-W, as of July 2005. If other VW bourbons are not S-W, please let us know.

In response to Tim's question about "the newer 23s", I stated that the most it is made from S-W stock. Is this not correct? Is the current batch of Pappy 23 not entirely made up of S-W bourbon??

[bluesbassdad]

It could also be that a bit of consideration for the reader is in order. I took two runs at your latest post and gave up before I achieved, as you say, comprehension.

I'm reasonably familiar with words such as "ellipses", "clause", etc., so my difficulty does not arise there. Perhaps it's the word "above", which failed to help me find "the abbreviated . . .", that is the root of the problem. A peripheral factor may be my use of the hybrid mode when viewing posts. Perhaps "above" has more significance in other modes, but at this point I'm too tired to experiment.

Could it be that near-record high temperatures (which caused my wife to cancel our plans to attend an outdoor bluegrass festival in Prescott) here in central Arizona are eroding my legendary tolerance and good will? :grin: I won't rule it out.

Yours truly,

Dave " 'Communicate' is a Transitive Verb" Morefield

[Sijan]

I think it probably didn't make much sense when you read it because the post I referred to had been edited, and thus no longer contains the misquote to which I was responding.

Regardless, it's a grammatical rule that's difficult to explain, and I don't even know the right grammatical terms to do so.

This sentence, from my previous post (#44 in this thread), was the one in question:

"It is bottled at the Buffalo Trace distillery in Frankfort - as all Van Winkle bourbons have been for several years now - from S-W stock."

This quote had been incorrectly reduced to "all...from S-W stock."

I was simply explaining why that sentence should not be interpreted (because of grammar rules) as meaning that all Van Winkle bourbons were from S-W stock, but rather that all Van Winkle bourbons have been bottled in Frankfort for several years now.

[cowdery]

These things seem to get more complicated than they need to be. Virtually every drop of whiskey made at Stitzel-Weller was wheated bourbon. There is some reason to believe there may have been some rye-recipe bourbon produced there, but it was a drop in the barrel. Ninety-nine times out of one-hundred, if it was made at Stitzel-Weller it was wheated bourbon.

Likewise, virtually every bourbon that has been sold under the Van Winkle name, whether "Old Rip," "Family Reserve," or "Pappy" has been wheat-recipe and all of it, until recently, has been from the Shively distillery we refer to here as Stitzel-Weller.

There was at least one, possibly more than one, instance of a Pappy Van Winkle product that was not wheated and not produced at Stitzel-Weller but, again, a drop in the barrel.

Finally, a few years ago, as the supply of Stitzel-Weller whiskey became depleted, Julian Van Winkle threw in with Buffalo Trace and moved his operation there. Currently, his source for wheated bourbon is the Bernheim Distillery now owned by Heaven Hill. Buffalo Trace has been producing wheated bourbon as well and as their stocks mature, it will be Buffalo Trace product in the bottles instead of Bernheim.

When it first became necessary to use non-Stitzel (i.e., Bernheim) whiskey in a regular Van Winkle product, Julian conveniently converted the Old Rip Van Winkle 15-year-old into a Pappy Van Winkle. From that point forward, the "Old Rip" (limited then to the 10-year-old) brand would be Bernheim wheated bourbon and the Pappy would all remain Stitzel.

What is confusing and can't really be helped, is that there is old stock "out there" in the marketplace, and there are various rules and tricks for determining where it was made, but they are not necessarily foolproof.

You have a couple of assurances, however:

1. Julian Van Winkle don't sell no crap. If it says, "Van Winkle," it's got to be good.

2. No Old Rip 15-year-old was made with non-Stitzel whiskey. If you find an Old Rip 15-year-old, it's Stitzel Weller.

[Sijan]

I'm curious as to what extent the W.L. Weller 12 year old was ever made from S-W whiskey? Any way to distinguish current Weller 12 from the S-W batches, if there were any.

Thanks in advance for your answer(s).