August release of BTEC

[TNbourbon]

...I bought a set of BTEC's plus an extra Fire Pot...Sharing some of the Fire Pot with my friend tonight......dry cinnamon at its best. I like it...

:toast: Cheers, Jeff! (He enjoyed the Fire Pot immensely during a July tasting at Randy's.)

[doubleblank]

Jeff won't get to try it until Sunday at our Labor Day BBQ. I'm still in Baton Rouge tonight. Like you said....he liked it and I bought the extra bottle to share with him.

He's also a fan of Four Roses SB.........planning to bring him a bottle of the small batch I hope to purchase during the Fest.

Randy

[M1Paul]

See my post under distillery trips. Saw Ken Weber at BT today and he said no BTEC at this time and the previous release is completely sold out. Only disappointment during the visit.

Paul

[Brennan77]

Or lucky. It's interesting. We have a whole case on the shelf right now and don't anticipate them moving very quickly. One guy came in and bought all 3, but came back an hour later to return them after his wife got angry. :bigeyes:

Turns out it's a small world. Imagine my surprise when I'm face to face with the young lady of whom I was commenting! Yeah, I should have known she and her husband read this website! :bigeyes: She didn't like my posts, needless to say. That said, I promised to right the wrong by mentioning that they did in fact return to buy 2 complete sets of the experimental nectar from heaven. :cool:

[cowdery]

She probably liked my comments even less. Good thing I'm several hundred miles away.

[brewcrew]

I don't know if it's $50/375ml nice, but it's certainly well composed. Nicely sweet nose with tamed oak. It's composed and polite oak rather than the wild west, masculine personality of the usual American. QUOTE]

I stumbled upon 1 bottle of the French Oak at a grocery store in WI. I think the description Brennan gave was perfect. Definitely a much tamer oak. I prefer american oak at this point but this one was still enjoyable.

[Brennan77]

I don't know if it's $50/375ml nice, but it's certainly well composed. Nicely sweet nose with tamed oak. It's composed and polite oak rather than the wild west, masculine personality of the usual American. QUOTE]

I stumbled upon 1 bottle of the French Oak at a grocery store in WI. I think the description Brennan gave was perfect. Definitely a much tamer oak. I prefer american oak at this point but this one was still enjoyable.

While in Spain this summer I sampled a couple of cheaper Rioja red wines that implemented American oak. They immediately reminded me of bourbon with their sometimes overbearing character. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that wood/smoke/caramel in bourbon, but a cheap new world wine with too much oak isn't very good.

The French oak bourbon is certainly a much more subtle drink. A co-worker described what he believed to be the cutting process of the oak. Something about the American oak being cut against the grain, rupturing the cells...etc.?? The French is cut with the grain and air dried as opposed to using chemicals, which is cheaper. Any truth to this? If so, what are sources for further learning on the matter?

[CrispyCritter]

I haven't heard of using chemicals to dry wood before, but a lot of wood is dried in kilns. Are bourbon barrels typically air-dried or kiln-dried?

[barturtle]

Ther is at least one maker that claims they spend the extra money for air dried staves, as they believe that is makes for a cleaner taste as compared to kiln dried wood. Though it may be that others also use air dried wood also, and just spend less time trying to convince use that their wood is unique.

[cowdery]

Distillers can and do get very detailed about the specifications for their barrels. Both air-dried and kiln-dried staves are used.

As for BTEC, we did learn at the Bourbon Festival that a new release is coming. I'm not sure when, but I know that a few people have received advance issues of them. (I have not.) They are all wine finishes. There is a chardonnay and a zinfandel. I forget the third. The person I know who has tried them gave them high marks.

[Vange]

Will the latest release be as limited? I assume so, but just checking if you guys heard anything more about it.

[OscarV]

Distillers can and do get very detailed about the specifications for their barrels. Both air-dried and kiln-dried staves are used.

As for BTEC, we did learn at the Bourbon Festival that a new release is coming. I'm not sure when, but I know that a few people have received advance issues of them. (I have not.) They are all wine finishes. There is a chardonnay and a zinfandel. I forget the third. The person I know who has tried them gave them high marks.

[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Wine finishes?

As in they put the bourbon in used wine cask for extra aging or what?

Oscar

[cowdery]

Wine finishes?

As in they put the bourbon in used wine cask for extra aging or what?

Oscar

Yes.

I found this a little odd because I believe that once, in a presentation, I heard Mark Brown (BT president) say this was something they would not do although, in fairness, I think he was specifically talking about the sherry and port finishes common among single malts.

There is some argument that this "finish" negates the whiskey's bourbon-ness, while others argue that it is "bourbon plus." In other words, it meets all the requirements of bourbon, including aging in a new barrel to maturity, then it spends another period of time (e.g., six months) in a cask previously used to age chardonnay, for example.

In Brown's presentation, he said their purpose in doing these experiments was to push at the limits of our understanding of "what is bourbon" while staying true to bourbon's essential nature.

Are wine finishes within that definition or do they exceed it? That is the question. I don't have a firm opinion either way. I'm willing to wait and see. After all, that's why they call it "experimental."

[jeff]

I believe I heard, and I can't remember where, that one was a Cab Franc barrel.

[OscarV]

In Brown's presentation, he said their purpose in doing these experiments was to push at the limits of our understanding of "what is bourbon" while staying true to bourbon's essential nature.

Are wine finishes within that definition or do they exceed it? That is the question. I don't have a firm opinion either way. I'm willing to wait and see. After all, that's why they call it "experimental."

[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

It has been my understanding of the 1964 Bourbon Law, that bourbon cannot have any added flavors. That is why Jack Daniels, with their maple charcoal filtering, is not considered a bourbon.

If that is the case then these new BTEC, with added wine flavoring cannot be called a bourbon.

That is not to say they will not taste good.

I'd love to try them. But at the same time I think they should not label them as bourbon.

Oscar

[ratcheer]

No, charcoal filtering is not flavoring. If anything, it removes flavors, probably mostly bad ones.

We have been over this many times, before.

Tim

[OscarV]

[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

No, charcoal filtering is not flavoring. If anything, it removes flavors, probably mostly bad ones.

We have been over this many times, before.

Tim

Now that you put it that way, it has got me to thinking.

JD to me is flat, or no complexity. I see now that the filtering could be one reason.

But Gentleman Jack is maple charcoal filtered a second time after aging, hence it is easier to taste the added flavor, and it is sweeter than JD. I think maybe JD picks some up, but after a few years in oak it probably gets covered up.

But I do keep going back to what you said Tim, and I would like to try a JD again, but not enough to buy one.

Weather it adds or removes, do you agree that because of this filtering sould it not be called bourbon?

And these new BTEC, should they be labeled bourbon?

[ratcheer]

No, I don't agree that it disqualifies it from being called bourbon. Look up Virgin Bourbon, which is charcoal filtered. There are probably others.

Also, please don't go trying JD thinking I recommended it. I can't stand the stuff. It strongly reminds me of paint thinner.

If you want to try a good charcoal filtered Tennessee whisky, get George Dickel No. 12, the one with the almost white label that looks like an old weathered poster (I don't know what color to call it. Its not white, not yellow, not beige.)

Tim

[OscarV]

No, I don't agree that it disqualifies it from being called bourbon.

If you want to try a good charcoal filtered Tennessee whisky, get George Dickel No. 12, the one with the almost white label that looks like an old weathered poster

Tim

[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I don't like JD thats why I said I ain't buying it to test again, and I knew from other post you didn't like it either.

I like GD No.12, I've had a couple of bottles. Over lots of crushed ice, the taste still comes through. I would like to tour their distillery sometime, We were going to go down to Tullahoma and Memphis this fall, but my wife's health isn't up to it.

Have you ever had their,... I think it is a single barrel?

But back to the other thing, I do think that the extra charcoal filtering disqualifies it from being called a bourbon.

As far as the BTEC goes, I would like to see the label on Jim Beam's Distillers Masterpiece, to see if they called that a bourbon.

[jeff]

As far as the BTEC goes, I would like to see the label on Jim Beam's Distillers Masterpiece, to see if they called that a bourbon.

They more or less do. It reads something like, "Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whisky, finished in port wine casks."

[cowdery]

I can't seem to get my hands on a copy of the correspondence that Regor Motlow had with the BATF, in which they said he couldn't call JD "bourbon" because of the charcoal filtering, but I'm told that is what it says. That is not, however, the final word. They could have appealed it and would, I think, have won, because a correct, legalistic reading of the regs does not disqualify JD from being bourbon. But instead of fighting it, JD made lemonade out of that lemon, claiming that the government had recognized Tennessee Whiskey as a distinctive product, something which it eventually and more explicitly did. But it's mostly about marketing. I maintain that as far as whether or not JD can legally be called "bourbon," the jury is still out.

As for bourbon finished in wine casks, that is a little more of an issue, because of the prohibition on "adding flavors." Beam hedged this cleverly by calling their product "bourbon whiskey finished in port wine casks," and I suspect the BT labels will do the same.

Mainly what the TTB requires is truth in labeling. That's the principle. What they are charged to prevent is someone from selling as "bourbon" something that is not, but if you want to sell "bourbon and coke," for example, and that's what your label says the product is, you can. Legally, there is no difference between a "bourbon and coke" RTD and a "bourbon finished in Chardonnay casks."

[OscarV]

I do hope these wine cask bourbons don't claim to be a "Straight Kentucky Bourbon" because I would not like to see bourbon go the way of muti flavored vodkas. With a different flavor every month to cheapen the image of bourbon.

[barturtle]

Heck I'm all for doing a flavor of the month! Small batches sold at insane prices. Let someone else pay to keep my tradional whiskies priced low! Much better than raising prices across the board.

[Vange]

I dont think that bourbon is going down the road of flavored vodkas. These are experimental casks by Buffalo Trace. They are not accesible in every liquor store and are very difficult to come by. To me they are nothing more than special releases and I have no issue with what they are doing.

[doubleblank]

It's BT's business, so I don't care what they do with their experiments as long as it adds to their knowledge and helps them make great bourbons.

BTW, I have tasted BT's experimental bourbon aged in a chardonnay barrel....and its better than the current releases of BTEC IMO. I'd buy it if/when it comes out.

Randy