SW All Gone

[whskylvr]

I have in front of me the NEW Whsiky Life & Spirits magazine 2010 volumn 4 just received in the last week. On page 53 has the same exact add that Joe mentioned and it does have ORVW 15 107.

[jburlowski]

I have in front of me the NEW Whsiky Life & Spirits magazine 2010 volumn 4 just received in the last week. On page 53 has the same exact add that Joe mentioned and it does have ORVW 15 107.

See: the post below in this thread.

[whskylvr]

Sorry meant to say John sorry John.

I was just confirming that the add was in there for some.

[Halifax]

Ok... I've been reading this, and I am confused. Perhaps someone can clear things up for me.

1. Is all PVW 15 SW bourbon?

2. Is PVW being discontinued, and being replace with ORVW 15?

[p_elliott]

Ok... I've been reading this, and I am confused. Perhaps someone can clear things up for me.

1. Is all PVW 15 SW bourbon?

2. Is PVW being discontinued, and being replace with ORVW 15?

Both of these questions seem to be debatable the only people that can really answer it is Julian or Preston. Julian or Preston care to settle the debate?

[OscarV]

A retailer told me today that the new Old Rip 15yo will be out in November.

[The Boozer]

Ok... I've been reading this, and I am confused. Perhaps someone can clear things up for me.

1. Is all PVW 15 SW bourbon?

2. Is PVW being discontinued, and being replace with ORVW 15?

In another thread, Preston stated "we bottled 2-3 year supply of 15, 16 year to sell as 15 yeasr Pappy."

Chuck stated in the same thread "everything with Pappy's picture on it would be S-W"

The answer to both questions would be yes, based on available info. Its the only conclusion I could make.

[jburlowski]

A retailer told me today that the new Old Rip 15yo will be out in November.

I heard there may be a release of the PVW 15 this spring.... probably one of the last ones.

[The Boozer]

I heard there may be a release of the PVW 15 this spring.... probably one of the last ones.

Heard the same. Of course that means there will be a herding of people at the various stores trying to get the last shipment. This past Nov was a bit of a zoo at severasl stores, watching customers come in and ask for the lastest BTAC. It was entertaining.

[doubleblank]

I know it has been confusing as to what is actually in the Pappy 15 bottles. My best conclusion is that it has MOSTLY been SW in the botlle. But Julian (reportedly) said back in 2007 that he had to use some BT bourbon from 1991 in his Pappy 15 bottling and that he couldn't tell the difference. Was that the only time he did so.....I don't know. Other than that one bottling, Julian has consistently stated that Pappy 15 is SW.

Randy

[jmpyle]

Can't speak to the bottle makeup but there will definitely be a release of Van Winkles in March/April time frame. Julian confirmed this just a couple weeks back. Be ready to stock just in case the end is near I suppose.

[JamesW]

I would expect to see the Pappy line replace their SW stocks with the Weller Centennial juice aged to 15 and 20 yrs. That's probably why such great bourbon was pulled off the shelf a few years back. The WLW BTAC releases have probably only been a fraction of the Centennial that had been in production.

[fishnbowljoe]

I would expect to see the Pappy line replace their SW stocks with the Weller Centennial juice aged to 15 and 20 yrs. That's probably why such great bourbon was pulled off the shelf a few years back. The WLW BTAC releases have probably only been a fraction of the Centennial that had been in production.

Centennial! :bigeyes: Did somebody say Centennial? I must be dreaming.:crazy: Joe

[cowdery]

Both Buffalo Trace and Heaven Hill have had to make some decisions about some of the myriad brands and expressions they have, in terms of production planning and looking ahead. One thing they know that's pretty absolute is how much whiskey of each type they're going to have available to sell in 2011, 2012, 2013, etc.

For those close-in years there is very little they can do about it. If you think you're going to need more 4-year-old whiskey in 2015, or 4- and 5-year-old whiskey in 2016, etc., that you can do something about -- you can increase your 2011 production. Otherwise the only way to make more of brand/expression X available is to take it from brand/expression Y, that has the same specs.

Some people have gotten all up in arms about the discontinuing of expressions or the removal of age statements, and certainly if a personal favorite goes away or gets changed nobody likes that. And no one will be shocked to learn that they tend to change or drop less profitable products to give more support to more profitable products.

When you wrap your head around all that, what's their alternative? As a long-time-ago ex-boss of mine used to say, "The last time I looked there wasn't a big red cross on the side of our building. We're a business, not a charity."

(This was usually said in response to some naive, idealistic query from me, by the way.)

[kickert]

(This was usually said in response to some naive, idealistic query from me, by the way.)

My my... how the tables have turned ;-)

[JamesW]

Centennial! :bigeyes: Did somebody say Centennial? I must be dreaming.:crazy: Joe

:grin: Not that I liked the stuff or anything...

[clingman71]

Ok, I'm pretty new to the "research" side of bourbon, have always enjoyed the drinking, but now am interested in a little more detail. I have a lone bottle of PVW20, just finished a bottle of PVW15, and 2 bottles of 12lotB. First let me just say, I love them all. I also love Elmer, Weller12, BT, 1792, and numerous others. I have never until now concerned myself with SW vs any other providers of Van Winkle. I now realize that my 20, and probably my 15, bought a few years ago were SW. All through this thread, people are referring to SW vs BT "juice". My understanding is that SW ceased distilling in '92, VW contract with BT began in '02. So Berheim filled the gap from '92 to '02, why all the mention of BT juice? Their first VW would be a 10year in 2012 would it not? So can I assume that current 10, 12, and soon to be ORVW15 (vs PVW15) are all Bernheim? BT has stated that they only distill one mashbill recipe for wheated bourbon. The difference being aging and barrel location during aging? So when did BT begin distilling Weller? Is current Weller12 a good starting point for anticipating what VW12 will be like in 2014? Many thanks for any answers and/or clarification.

[DeanSheen]

Hi Clingman.

Maybe go back and edit that wall of text and separate out the questions.

All your questions have all been answered in the forum. Search is your friend.

[cowdery]

Since it's all made at BT using the same recipe, the only difference between Weller and Van Winkle is Julian's (and now Preston's) selection criteria, their palates and their determination of how Van Winkle should taste. All the stuff about the Van Winkles making BT's wheated bourbon more SW-like is just PR fluff.

BT obtained the Weller brand, along with both SW and Bernheim-made whiskey, in 1999, and ramped up its own wheated bourbon production at that time, but it had been making some wheated bourbon before that. Remember too that any given bottle could be a mixture of some or all of the three distilleries.

Ultimately, if it tastes right, exactly where it was made isn't that important.

[SMOWK]

Ultimately, if it tastes right, exactly where it was made isn't that important.

HEAR HEAR! I think all of the determination to find out if a bottle is SW or not has to do with the eBay factor.

[cowdery]

HEAR HEAR! I think all of the determination to find out if a bottle is SW or not has to do with the eBay factor.

[Neat]

I can understand why someone who's never tasted SW whiskey would want to, and it is still possible to do so, but it's nothing to obsess about.

Were I a youngster looking for my first taste of SW, I'd spend my time dusty hunting, looking for some suitable Old Fitzgerald or W. L. Weller, Old Commonwealth or even Old Rip Van Winkle, rather than counting my pennies and worrying about whether that bottle of Pappy 15 is really SW or not.

I'm not saying it never matters where something is made, but Van Winkle has earned the right to be taken on it's own terms. You should not buy a Van Winkle to experience SW. You should buy a Van Winkle to experience Van Winkle.

[sku]

hear, hear! once again, sage advice from the master hisself. i will add however, that i've done quite a bit of dusty hunting and finding dusty sw bourbon (at least in houston texas) is all but impossible. i've found dusty wt, old charter, btac, bhc, old granddad, heck, even one bottle of er 10/101 but sw? NADA (except for that weller 12 that MAY be sw :grin: ).

[clingman71]

I think the point of my questions were a little misunderstood. My desire to understand the VW SW relationship has more to do with knowing what it is I'm drinking, or had had in the past along with what I will be drinking in the future. There is a good chance that the PVW15 that I have finished was SW, and the PVW20 that is nearly finished is SW. The current VWFR12lotB, if my understanding of the timeline is correct, would be Bernheim distilled. Beginning in 2012, BT would be 10 years old and thus a new batch of VW10 would hit the market. I had a Cork and Bottle Barrel Selection 12yr Weller about 4 years ago that was an older style label that they stated was SW, it was excellent, but the new bottle of Weller 12 is also excellent, I assume this is BT? Having an understanding of which versions came from which distillery is nice for tasting comparisons, and knowing what differences might arise through the transitions from distillery to distillery that VW has undergone. The one consistent is that VW always seems to have an excellent product, never had one that I didn't love. I'm not obsessed over SW, just want to know what is what. And as far as reading back though these posts, I see many SW-BT references, the Bernheim years seem to not get mentioned even though I assume this is the 10 and 12 that we are buying right now.

[tmckenzie]

Yesterday the hppy hour guys were interviewing us, and the said a restaurant in NYC has a pappy milkshake. I bet that is yummy. 60 bucks a pop though.