BTAC and Van Winkle nonsense

[B.B. Babington]

I have a bottle of '01 chillin somewhere...What are the differences between an 01 and an 08?

[ErichPryde]

They know exactly how many barrels they have left. Now, how much everyone else has left in stocks anywhere, that's the question they can't answer.

Problem is, you don't really know exactly how much is in a barrel... Until you need the barrel. I think they will be "out" of 20 year old S-W distillate in 2013 and 23 yr in 2016 IF they keep carefully meting it out the way they have been. of course... there's no guarantee that that's true.

For advertising's sake though, it's great to keep things ambiguous. Let all of us do the talking. Is it all BT now?? is there any S-W mixed in there??? Well maybe they--- With comments like these being flung around, The Van Winkles almost don't even need a full page ad in a magazine... just like Joe said.

[ErichPryde]

I've not had 2008. I tried 2001 back to back with 2010 and found them miles apart. But now I'm trying 2010 with 2011 and find the 2010 better. One would hope it was all the same coming out of the same tank, but the three bottles I've tried so far don't agree (1 2010 vs 2 2011's). I understand they want to release slowly to keep price higher, but maybe this tank idea not working out so well.

[B.B. Babington]

...My assumption is that as volume reduces in the tank, and a larger percentage of the remaining whiskey is exposed to air and allowed to oxidize, it continues to change. So every release from 07 or 08 (whenever it got tanked...?) would be "the same," except for the effects of air...

[barturtle]

My assumption is that as volume reduces in the tank, and a larger percentage of the remaining whiskey is exposed to air and allowed to oxidize, it continues to change. So every release from 07 or 08 (whenever it got tanked...?) would be "the same," except for the effects of air.

Possibly just as important as oxidation (and this is never talked about, but I'm sure Chuck will have an article soon:slappin:) is the fact that stainless steel is stainless because it creates a hard barrier when exposed to oxygen. In the absence of oxygen to keep that barrier strong, such as under water in marine situations, or say when the stainless happens to be under a volume of whiskey for a number of years, that barrier weakens, making it more prone to chemical attack and allowing the iron content of the steel to get dissolved by those chemicals. Iron and whiskey don't mix.

[ErichPryde]

Possibly just as important as oxidation (and this is never talked about, but I'm sure Chuck will have an article soon:slappin:) is the fact that stainless steel is stainless because it creates a hard barrier when exposed to oxygen. In the absence of oxygen to keep that barrier strong, such as under water in marine situations, or say when the stainless happens to be under a volume of whiskey for a number of years, that barrier weakens, making it more prone to chemical attack and allowing the iron content of the steel to get dissolved by those chemicals. Iron and whiskey don't mix.

Yes- I never really exactly got how we could leave 10,000 gallons of whiskey in a stainless steel container, but I can't leave 100 ml in my stainless flask.

[CaptainQ]

Yes- I never really exactly got how we could leave 10,000 gallons of whiskey in a stainless steel container, but I can't leave 100 ounces in my stainless flask.

Maybe the interior of the ss tank is coated.

[Josh]

They rub the inside with a paste made from Pappy's ashes.

[ErichPryde]

They rub the inside with a paste made from Pappy's ashes.

I thought his ashes were added to the ORVW23 collector's decanter....?

[White Dog]

They rub the inside with a paste made from Pappy's ashes.

That's the honey tank!

[smokinjoe]

Possibly just as important as oxidation (and this is never talked about, but I'm sure Chuck will have an article soon:slappin:) is the fact that stainless steel is stainless because it creates a hard barrier when exposed to oxygen. In the absence of oxygen to keep that barrier strong, such as under water in marine situations, or say when the stainless happens to be under a volume of whiskey for a number of years, that barrier weakens, making it more prone to chemical attack and allowing the iron content of the steel to get dissolved by those chemicals. Iron and whiskey don't mix.

Fricky? Bourbonjoe? Help please? You guys know about as much as there is to know about stainless.

FWIW, I have positively ADORED every years' release of Saz 18 that I have tasted. I don't think there has been any degradation of this whiskey over the last several years. It was, and is, truly special. IMO, of course. YMMV.

[dmarkle]

Photo-proof that this has gone too far. Look at poor Julian III in that picture, under the looming pricetag. He looks like he's a victim of abuse!

I went in the store to see if the proprietor had ANYTHING at any reasonable price whatsoever. He did not. I guess if your sales strategy is to be the only one in town with the fine old whiskey in your glass case, this is how you do it. The scary thing is that he clearly had sold some bottles since I'd walked by last. He had the VW 12 at $100 and it was GONE!

[DeanSheen]

Photo-proof that this has gone too far. Look at poor Julian III in that picture, under the looming pricetag. He looks like he's a victim of abuse!

I went in the store to see if the proprietor had ANYTHING at any reasonable price whatsoever. He did not. I guess if your sales strategy is to be the only one in town with the fine old whiskey in your glass case, this is how you do it. The scary thing is that he clearly had sold some bottles since I'd walked by last. He had the VW 12 at $100 and it was GONE!

Well if inflation keeps up at this rate I'll be sitting pretty in a few more years.

[CaptainQ]

Photo-proof that this has gone too far. Look at poor Julian III in that picture, under the looming pricetag. He looks like he's a victim of abuse!

I went in the store to see if the proprietor had ANYTHING at any reasonable price whatsoever. He did not. I guess if your sales strategy is to be the only one in town with the fine old whiskey in your glass case, this is how you do it. The scary thing is that he clearly had sold some bottles since I'd walked by last. He had the VW 12 at $100 and it was GONE!

:bigeyes: What was the Pappy 20 selling for??

[dridge11]

I have enormous respect for retailers that know the secondary market value and continue to sell for a fair price. I got both my 20s for just over $100 ea and my ORVW10/107 for $34. I'll be buying more beer/booze from the same establishments for not letting greed take over on a few bottles.

[dmarkle]

:bigeyes: What was the Pappy 20 selling for??

Apparently, he was SOLD OUT of his 20's. I think 300 bucks.

I think the idea behind this shop is, "well, we're in DC, so there's got to be some fat cat lobbyist/senator/congressman who just Has to have 'the best' stuff, and who has an expense account somewhere to pay for this." So he probably sells to that market... We have plenty of folks in this town (Also, embassies...) who have tons of money, big expense accounts, and no need to pay a fair price for a limited resource.

Oh yeah, and when I called him out on his BS prices he says to me, "It gets more expensive for me every year -- it keeps going up by 15%!"

Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason.

[Ejmharris]

I have enormous respect for retailers that know the secondary market value and continue to sell for a fair price. I got both my 20s for just over $100 ea and my ORVW10/107 for $34. I'll be buying more beer/booze from the same establishments for not letting greed take over on a few bottles.

Can't agree more about the statement above regarding those that stick to their guns on fair price. However this is part of capitalism that still works well. Let supply and demand pressures determine the price. For those that raise the price and get people to purchase it, that is all part of the free market and good for them. We have the right to buy it or leave it on the shelf. If we leave it on the shelf long enough the free market will drive the price back down. I started driving myself crazy trying to find any of the PVW's or BTAC this year. I must have hit 40 stores in the surrounding 50 mile radius. I found only one store with Handy at $97. As much as I wanted to try it, I left it on the shelf. What I did find in that store hunt were some ryes and bourbon in the $15-$40 range that I find amazing. I will stick to those until the non-sense dies down.

In full disclosure, I do have some in the small bunker I have built, but it is purely thanks to a new found friend that gave more than he received. Will return that favor one of these days!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dmarkle]

I will stick to those until the non-sense dies down.

[SMOWK]

And therein lies the beauty of the PVW switch to BT. Since it's still really good, I can wait and buy some more later at some future date once this insanity goes away a bit.

[hectic1]

I've got a bottle or two to get me through the hipster craze...:cool:

:slappin: yeah...more like a 100 bottles!

[SMOWK]

:slappin: yeah...more like a 100 bottles!

Hafta keep the count on the bottles you like in the triple digits. I need at least enough to last a year.

[BFerguson]

What I did find in that store hunt were some ryes and bourbon in the $15-$40 range that I find amazing.

While many of us, and I will voluntarily throw myself in the group also, love the thrill in acquiring and drinking these gems, for the most part stick to the lower dollar range pours as more of the everyday.

There is almost more satisfaction in the knowledge that you only paid $20 or less, for something that just brings you so much enjoyment. it makes you feel like your stealing something.

B

Remember Santa is always watching. Giving is not about always getting the same in return. It's just good karma.

[dridge11]

Can't agree more about the statement above regarding those that stick to their guns on fair price. However this is part of capitalism that still works well. Let supply and demand pressures determine the price.

Totally agree, the market rules. But I think jacking up the prices to the top of the market is also short sighted. For example, I work in wine retail...we had a bottle that I KNOW is bringing $900+ on the secondary market. I stuck to our pricing model and offered it to my guys at the $375. Granted we didn't maximize what the market would give us, but it solidifies that relationship for future business together. I could have sold at auction to some nameless buyer for $900 and never done another bit of business with that person again.

At any rate, I'm pleased to have found a few folks that just want to give the enthusiasts an opportunity to purchase them at a fair price.

[ErichPryde]

Totally agree, the market rules. But I think jacking up the prices to the top of the market is also short sighted. For example, I work in wine retail...we had a bottle that I KNOW is bringing $900+ on the secondary market. I stuck to our pricing model and offered it to my guys at the $375. Granted we didn't maximize what the market would give us, but it solidifies that relationship for future business together. I could have sold at auction to some nameless buyer for $900 and never done another bit of business with that person again.

My god. a retailer who wants future customers. Mad respect to you, sir.

[Chuckles]

Forty days; forty nights. Thirty fruitless phone calls; three fruitful phone calls. Twenty-five clueless clerks; five helpful clerks. A score of stores; four scores.

Seven Franklins; eight Van Winkles. Nevermore.