Angel's Envy Cask Strength

[conecuhridge]

Thank you for your post Wes, it was informative, to the point and showed grace under pressure. I applaud your efforts in finishing whisky and while not to my taste (good whisky doesn't need it) it does provide an added dimension that the whisky wouldn't otherwise have. I have paid more than $149 for a bottle of whisky and have received gifts of bottles of that or greater value. When you bill a client by the hour for a year he appreciates a thoughtful gesture at holiday time. I won't be buying yours though because I'm retired, no longer have a need to send such gifts, and am disinclined to pay that much for something I will use myself. Being a Bourbon enthusiast for about 50 years now my use parameters have tightened so I'll offer a few observations.

I have no use for a box except as a place for a small boy to store his toy soldiers (also makes a dandy fort) so for me the exterior container is just expensive trash.

I'm sure I would enjoy the dinner conversation but for a meal I prefer to choose my own time, place and menu. A personal one on one tour of your facility though might move me a little closer to the yes column.

I have no use for a cork closure. Prized bottles are used sparingly and cork eventually gets dry, brittle, and most importantly, lets more air in. Doesn't spoil the whisky of course but it will change it over time. A screw top is the safest, most protective and efficient closure system.

I don't care if the whisky is made or purchased by you so long as it's good stuff. Your team can judge a barrel better than I can and I'm willing to pay for your efforts.

In short what I want is a good product at a reasonable price. I don't expect a bargain bin special, quality costs, but I am unwilling to pay extra for packaging frills.

My best to you and yours during this holiday season.

Regards,

Squire

[MacinJosh]

Wow Tom, that might be a new record post for you in terms of length! Well said though.

I've had AE CS on several occasions and it's one of my favorite finished bourbons for sure. I've been looking forward to this release for some time (obviously, I even started this thread). I am a little disappointed by the price. But I'm a BIG fan of a free market economy. And whatever price it will fetch and sell for is the right price. Supply vs Demand. Perhaps there are only 600 people out there willing to pay $150 for it. Well then, it was priced perfect. We can whine and moan and cry all we want but it is what it is. Same with Pappy and all the other bourbons climbing in price each year.

Anyway....I wanted to speak more on the product. It's very tasty for any of you not fortunate enough to have sampled yet. It is well balanced.

Here's a photo so you guys can see the color difference. The additional port influence is very evident not only in the color but on the palate as well.

And I really dig the particulates floating around in the glass. Can you see them?

And when the bottle is finished and every last drop had been poured.....it makes a pretty damn cool lamp! :)

Cheers everyone!

[MyOldKyDram]

Okay. Finally had a couple of nights to sit down and spend some time with this. Here goes.

Appearance - It's a good looking pour. Beautiful dark, red amber. Long syrupy legs.

Nose - 72 pt, comic-sans WHAM! bubble of alcohol. Virtually impenetrable. It doesn't give much up beyond that save oak and musty grapes. My girlfriend teased out a burnt caramel popcorn note. Vanilla with prolonged air time.

Palate - Soft. Dessert Wine sweet, but with a bite. Like the liquid at the bottom of a Flavor Ice that trickles down and grabs your throat. Wine sweetness to the point I thought I wasn't going to get any bourbon taste at all, but then a rush of rye spice and splinters in the tongue oak just run roughshod over everything. Aggressive.

Finish - Long, lingering, drying oak and alcohol. Warmy. This is what the Heatmisers tongue must feel like.

In the end I'm not sure how to judge this. Does it stand up to the original "If it is NOT the most complex and smooth cask strength bourbon you have ever tried..." challenge? No. I would rate most if not all Staggs higher on the complexity scale. This years 4R SmB, too. And there are many smoother. The second challenge moved the goalposts a bit, simply wanting to be the best at what they do. In that regard I suppose they have succeeded as this is a might bit better than the standard bottling of AE. Is it special though? Not in my estimation. I find it to be unbalanced in too many aspects. But it is good whiskey. And good may be good enough if we were talking $70-80, give or take. But at $150+ I'm passing. Although I am sure they will all be moved eventually. B-

I do want to thank Wes, both for giving me the opportunity to sample his product, and for coming on here and dealing with the likes of us. I know it can't be easy dealing with criticism like ours head-on, and I appreciate him taking it in stride, and backing his product 100%. Cheers.

Edited November 28, 2012 by MyOldKyDram

[conecuhridge]

Thank you so much for taking the time and interest to thoughtfully consider our cask release. This sort of dialogue with friends is why I enjoy being part of this community. As you can tell, I like to lay it all out, and I take each post as personal involvement in our adventure of growth. Each morning, as nuts as it may sound, it is a huge blessing for my family that people are taking the time to discuss our little brand.

As for our deal....I am a man of my word.

Best,

Wes

[bad_scientist]

...We have been very open about the process of how Angel's Envy is produced.

I'd bet that openness stops just shy of reporting the age(s) of what goes into your $150 whiskey.

[bad_scientist]

I'd bet that openness stops just shy of reporting the age(s) of what goes into your $150 whiskey.

Sorry about that post - I can see how it comes off as snippy. I'm very happy that Mr. Henderson is refreshingly up-front about the way the whiskey he bottles is produced. In the spirit of openness, can you tell us, Mr. Henderson, how old your $150 whiskey is? While I'm at it, with a limit of 600 bottles, can I take it that it's from one port pipe?

[TomH]

Not trying to answer for Wes, but I think the age range is a pretty simple guess....

It is at least 4 years old since they use the phrase Straight Bourbon and its NAS....

It is no older than 8 years old after hearing Lincoln preach that most whiskey over 8 years old is over the hill (when he stated his opinion he did note that it was obvious that several of us didn't agree with that statement).

[MacinJosh]

Not trying to answer for Wes, but I think the age range is a pretty simple guess....

It is at least 4 years old since they use the phrase Straight Bourbon and its NAS....

It is no older than 8 years old after hearing Lincoln preach that most whiskey over 8 years old is over the hill (when he stated his opinion he did note that it was obvious that several of us didn't agree with that statement).

I would place it around 6 years just from palate experience alone. It has a youthful bite to it but it doesn't drink green or young.

I (along with lots of other people) would also love to know the source, and I'm quite certain Wes would love to tell us, but I understand business relationships and how fragile they can be. Wes has always been as honest and forthcoming as he can every time I've spoken to him in person on AE. He has some very interesting stories to tell on his chill filtration experiments and how many samples he kept in his freezer.

[MyOldKyDram]

I'd guess about 8 yo with the extra finishing time.

As to the source, it's matches a Brown Forman mashbill, no?

[squire]

Well, It's understandable. If I'm a distiller with surplus to requirements stock of course I'll sell it on the spot market (it was made to be sold) but I don't want someone to bottle up an undesirable low proof cinnamon/honey/papaya mess and proudly state on his label the whisky came from me.

If I'm a skillful producer of a quality proprietary whisky my formula is the product of my experience and sense of what a good whisky should be. I will cut no corners and may use more or less of one or more maker's product to achieve my goal. I don't want to put out a carefully crafted whisky only to have a naysayer post "well, it's just the same stuff you can get from the distillery brands" because it's not the same stuff. I chose the barrels and mingled to my own idea of my brand's profile and I don't want to give out the formula that took me years of work to achieve.

We have good distillers and we have good producers and I'm in favor of the two working in concert. I don't even care if they call it blended whiskey (works for the Scots, Irish and Canadians) because I"m convinced the right whiskys would make that description more respectable. In our modern information age there's no rock big enough for the unscrupulous to hide under and quality will out.

Regards,

Squire

[squire]

For what the rock rats put out the distillery stuff is the same . . . and a lot cheaper.

[Old Lamplighter]

Just in case anyone is interested, TPS now has the CS as well as their own private recipe of AE.

[T Comp]

I haven't seen the cask strength yet here in the Chicago area but three of our liquor retailers also have their own private or handpicked recipe of the regular AE. The Henderson men are doing their best to keep the label out in front of the consumer in select markets.

[TomH]

I haven't seen the cask strength yet here in the Chicago area but three of our liquor retailers also have their own private or handpicked recipe of the regular AE. The Henderson men are doing their best to keep the label out in front of the consumer in select markets.

[Tony]

Not sure if I saw it in here, does someone have all the details around the dinner thing?

Best regards, Tony

[conecuhridge]

Tom has a pretty good handle on the age of the bourbon.

I don't have an issue talking about age, but I prefer maturity over age. We have talked publicly about the general age range of Angel's Envy, and have kept it as ranges as opposed to detailed specifics, as there is such a wide range of maturity within the age range. Clear as mud? The port finish also seems to blunt the higher alcohols, which gives Angel's Envy a subtle boost in perceptible age definitions. Once again, I really don't get hung up on age statements, and as a personal preference (which also bears out in consumer tests), I prefer a bourbon no more than 10 years of age. Is that honest enough for my friend, Bad_Scientist?

Not trying to answer for Wes, but I think the age range is a pretty simple guess....

It is at least 4 years old since they use the phrase Straight Bourbon and its NAS....

It is no older than 8 years old after hearing Lincoln preach that most whiskey over 8 years old is over the hill (when he stated his opinion he did note that it was obvious that several of us didn't agree with that statement).

[conecuhridge]

On another note, as I have been asked a number of times the last few days, the final allocation of the Cask Strength has been delivered to The Party Source in Bellevue, and I have asked them to make a certain portion available on-line only, so our friends from parts other than KY and TN can get some if they wish.

Finally, I wish a wonderful Christmas holiday month to my friends here.

Cheers!

Wes

[tanstaafl2]

Tried to resist the temptation but alas I lack the strength to do so. I liked the regular Angel's Envy quite a bit and the pull of the unusual and the uncommon was too strong a draw for me. Beside, I had been wanting to order a bottle of the Bowman TPS Barrel #45 and this was the last straw. My order is in!

Thanks for making a few available for those of us outside the KY/TN region!

BTW, is the regular AE going to be coming to Georgia anytime soon?

[dryeager]

Has anyone indulged in a bottle? I love the presentation in the nice wooden box but the bottle I found was around $150. I've had the regular AE and I wasnt the biggest fan so its a little tough to drop that much on a product I am unsure of how much I will enjoy it. Thoughts?!

[HighInTheMtns]

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17657

Cheers!

[dryeager]

http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17657

Cheers!

Thank you! I will vow to use the search function more.

[squire]

Search yes but dialog is more fun. I will restate the question . . . has anyone sampled both the regular AE and the cask strength AE and if so what do you think?

[callmeox]

To keep the information in one place, the newly opened thread has been merged into the existing thread.

[dryeager]

To keep the information in one place, the newly opened thread has been merged into the existing thread.

Good move. Thanks for being the best moddy ever!

[smokinjoe]

As a side note that I meant to mention earlier in this thread, I would like to commend Mr. Henderson for the pleasant and professional manor in which he contributed to this thread.

Kudos to you, sir.

:toast: