What Bourbon Should I Purchase Today? - Spring/Summer 2012

[gblick]

Thanks! I still don't know whether I'll pull the trigger (I'm cheap), but this helps.

[Brisko]

I'd go with the Baker's and the Booker's myself. The KCSB just didn't trip my trigger.

That was my first thought, too. But I got the KCSB for about the same price as regular KC would be. And I'm always looking to try new things.

Even though the sale is over I'll be getting another Booker's from this batch for the bunker.

[JayMonster]

OK, I have been avoiding Heaven Hill products thanks to... less than stellar experiences with their namesake label and Evan Williams Black.

I've been advised that I should give Heaven Hill a fair shot before writing them off, with some of their better products.

Now, thanks to another SBer, I will soon have a bottle of PHC to try, but I certainly don't consider that a standard bourbon and is not something I will drink regularly.

What I can find around here includes

EC12

EC18

EWSB

JW Dant

Fighting Cock

Henry McKenna 80

Henry McKenna Single Barrel 10/100

I understand that everybody's tastes are different, and I am not asking which of these is "the best." What I want to know is, if you had to pick one to say, "this is the best representative of the Heaven Hill Profile" which one would you select for that purpose?

[weller_tex]

Since I guess BT isn't killing OWA, I jumped back on the PVW merry-go-round. I got on the Spec's Spring list in time to get the last bottle of Spring 2012 VW 12 year Lot B.

[Young Blacksmith]

Definitely not JW Dant!

I'd pick EC12, especially the newer bottles from '11 & '12. EWSB would be my second pick, as I think EC18 is too woody.

[Brisko]

OK, I have been avoiding Heaven Hill products thanks to... less than stellar experiences with their namesake label and Evan Williams Black.

I've been advised that I should give Heaven Hill a fair shot before writing them off, with some of their better products.

Now, thanks to another SBer, I will soon have a bottle of PHC to try, but I certainly don't consider that a standard bourbon and is not something I will drink regularly.

What I can find around here includes

EC12

EC18

EWSB

JW Dant

Fighting Cock

Henry McKenna 80

Henry McKenna Single Barrel 10/100

I understand that everybody's tastes are different, and I am not asking which of these is "the best." What I want to know is, if you had to pick one to say, "this is the best representative of the Heaven Hill Profile" which one would you select for that purpose?

The problem, as I see it, is that EWB is the Heaven Hill profile... so avoid all the cats and dogs like Dant and standard McKenna, etc. because they are just variations on that theme.

Fighting Cock goes in a different direction and EWSB is generally very good (although perhaps a touch bland) and tones down the grass/mint. EC12 and 18 have their own issues but the 12 would be a cheap learning experience. I'm fond of McKenna single barrel but I recall it being fairly mentholated (though balanced with citrus notes) so you might not care for it.

Based on your stated preferences I think EWSB is a good choice. Maybe FC, too. They're both relatively inexpensive, anyway.

[cowdery]

My current recommendations are here.

Interestingly, that post has received a lot of hits, several times more than the posts around it. How to interpret that? One way would be that many people are more interested in simply being told what to do than they are in taking the time, and doing the work, to learn about something so they can make their own selections.

[BarrelChar]

One way would be that many people are more interested in simply being told what to do than they are in taking the time, and doing the work, to learn about something so they can make their own selections.

[sob0728]

My current recommendations are here.

Interestingly, that post has received a lot of hits, several times more than the posts around it. How to interpret that? One way would be that many people are more interested in simply being told what to do than they are in taking the time, and doing the work, to learn about something so they can make their own selections.

A lot of people have a limited amount of money and would like to buy something that is generally perceived by others as a good product. I see nothing wrong with this thread.

This isn't like running shoes where you can just try them all on and take home the ones that fit you best.

[Lazer]

Agreed. People who read reviews and recommendations are lazy. They should just buy every bottle in the store and figure out what tastes good.

Amen. Bourbon is a personal journey and you can't just let people tell you whats good. You'll end up drinking a lot of Maker's Mark and Pappy Van Winkle and you'll never know what you might really like. You'll waste a lot of time and money buying what's in style instead of what YOU like. The answer is yes, give everything a try, but not all at once. After a while you'll be able to make educated guesses about what is and isn't worth it. Bourbon takes personal experience.

[BarrelChar]

Amen. Bourbon is a personal journey and you can't just let people tell you whats good. You'll end up drinking a lot of Maker's Mark and Pappy Van Winkle and you'll never know what you might really like. You'll waste a lot of time and money buying what's in style instead of what YOU like. The answer is yes, give everything a try, but not all at once. After a while you'll be able to make educated guesses about what is and isn't worth it. Bourbon takes personal experience.

Well, I guess this would be the time to admit I was being sarcastic, albeit ineffectively it appears.

There's no reason to knock someone who relies on the expertise of others. People with limited budgets want to avoid making mistakes on bottles and may not have the time to trawl the threads of a bourbon geek forum. It's rather unfair for someone to flaunt his expertise and then simultaneously chide the plebes for following his recommendations. Yes, finding what flavors you like is a personal journey, but there's nothing wrong with reading the opinions of those who've been down the road before. Also, Chuck's recommendations were three types of whiskeys that are going to be extremely limited and/or disappearing completely--the kind of information that couldn't be gleaned from taste alone.

[hectic1]

Well, I guess this would be the time to admit I was being sarcastic, albeit ineffectively it appears.

There's no reason to knock someone who relies on the expertise of others. People with limited budgets want to avoid making mistakes on bottles and may not have the time to trawl the threads of a bourbon geek forum. It's rather unfair for someone to flaunt his expertise and then simultaneously chide the plebes for following his recommendations. Yes, finding what flavors you like is a personal journey, but there's nothing wrong with reading the opinions of those who've been down the road before. Also, Chuck's recommendations were three types of whiskeys that are going to be extremely limited and/or disappearing completely--the kind of information that couldn't be gleaned from taste alone.

Same can be said in the opposite vain...what one thinks is great juice I might think is swill. Just because a review is out there stating good or bad contents doesn't mean that you're going to agree or disagree with the reviewer. Please try and keep your personal battles/issues with Chuck private as it's pretty clear that all you were trying to do is go against whatever he said.

Money does come into play but that's the beauty of trading samples, buying 50ml bottles, 200ml, buying a pour at a bar...you don't have to buy a 750ml to see if you like or dislike a bottle!:cool:

[BarrelChar]

Same can be said in the opposite vain...what one thinks is great juice I might think is swill. Just because a review is out there stating good or bad contents doesn't mean that you're going to agree or disagree with the reviewer.

True, but if most reviewers agree on a particular bottle and post similar notes that appeal to your preferred tasting profile, it's probably a good bet that you'll enjoy it too.

Please try and keep your personal battles/issues with Chuck private as it's pretty clear that all you were trying to do is go against whatever he said.

Puh-lease. Gratuitous attacks on enthusiasts who lack total expertise aren't appreciated, no matter who's behind them. The notion that people reading recommendations "are more interested in simply being told what to do" is ridiculous.

Money does come into play but that's the beauty of trading samples, buying 50ml bottles, 200ml, buying a pour at a bar...you don't have to buy a 750ml to see if you like or dislike a bottle!

Right, obviously there are other ways to try things before buying 750 ML. But reviews and recommendation lists are helpful in finding out what you want to try in the first place.

[hectic1]

True, but if most reviewers agree on a particular bottle and post similar notes that appeal to your preferred tasting profile, it's probably a good bet that you'll enjoy it too.

Puh-lease. Gratuitous attacks on enthusiasts who lack total expertise aren't appreciated, no matter who's behind them. The notion that people reading recommendations "are more interested in simply being told what to do" is ridiculous.

Right, obviously there are other ways to try things before buying 750 ML. But reviews and recommendation lists are helpful in finding out what you want to try in the first place.

I don't have a dog in this fight and I'm not looking to engage in verbal sparing over the internet. I don't see anything wrong with what Chuck said...I know many people who are intimidated by the hobby and are in the exact position that he described...if you could take a step back from your personal dislike for Chuck you might see that there is some level of truth to what he said.

[soad]

Please try and keep your personal battles/issues with Chuck private as it's pretty clear that all you were trying to do is go against whatever he said.

Hear, hear.

We are here to talk bourbon, not fight at every turn. It has gotten old.

[sob0728]

I don't have a dog in this fight and I'm not looking to engage in verbal sparing over the internet. I don't see anything wrong with what Chuck said...I know many people who are intimidated by the hobby and are in the exact position that he described...if you could take a step back from your personal dislike for Chuck you might see that there is some level of truth to what he said.

I can see either side of this, however, sometimes it is nice to have a recommendation. Just last week I wanted to know if I should buy Rare Breed or Kentucky Spirit, so I started a thread. Eventually I will try both, I am sure, but I was just looking for some opinions on what people seemed to like. Rare Breed was a runaway winner so it made me excited to go out and buy some bourbon, isn't that what this place is about?

If I need legal advice, I'll talk to a lawyer friend. If I need tax advice, I will talk to an accountant. If I need bourbon advice, it's nice to be able to ask the great bourbon minds here.:grin:

I am not trying to defend BarrelChar by any means, but I do think Chuck should understand that not everyone gets sent samples and invited to industry tasting events and we like to get good bourbon when we spend money on it.

[BarrelChar]

if you could take a step back from your personal dislike for Chuck you might see that there is some level of truth to what he said.

Again, you've repeated your inaccurate contention this is part of a feud. In truth, the only folks making it personal are those who apply preferential double standards.

The original post in question was unambiguous and insulting toward many of the bourbon enthusiasts who read that blog. Typically, a writer would be happy to generate more traffic from the recommendations he willingly posted, instead of using the popularity of that post to make paternalistic assumptions about people who aren't as perfectly informed.

Bourbon is growing. People are going to read recommendations--and rightfully so. There's no reason to snipe at the newcomers who haven't been enthusiasts for 30+ years, especially on a forum entitled "What Bourbon Should I Purchase Today?"

[hectic1]

Again, you've repeated your inaccurate contention this is part of a feud. In truth, the only folks making it personal are those who apply preferential double standards.

Read what Chuck wrote. It's unambiguous and insulting toward many of the bourbon enthusiasts who read his blog. Typically, a writer would be happy to generate more traffic from the recommendations he willingly posted, instead of using the popularity of that post to make paternalistic assumptions about people who aren't as perfectly informed.

Bourbon is growing. People are going to read recommendations--and rightfully so. There's no reason to snipe at the newcomers who haven't been enthusiasts for 30+ years, especially on a forum entitled "What Bourbon Should I Purchase Today?"

So are you saying that there is no truth to what Chuck said? It's a simple yes or no answer in case you were going to go off on another diatribe about why he said it.

[Virus_Of_Life]

Everyone needs to adjust their shorts, take a deep breath and make sure their sensitive bits are ok. Their is not a damn thing wrong with what Chuck said. Anyone who doubts the best way to learn what you like is by drinking it is bring foolish, same goes for anyone who expects to taste the same things a taster uses to describe a bourbon. A certain version of OF Birthday Bourbon was described by same as tasting like diaper, many followed suit, I personally found it to be one of the best unique OFBB releases. Does that mean I like the taste of diaper? No, my pallette didn't interpret what I tasted as diaper in any sense. The only way to learn about the flavors and style of bourbon you like is to drink as many different bourbons as you can. Taste is subjective, as are opinions.

[JayMonster]

I think the truth sits somewhere in the middle.

Is there some truth in what Chuck said? Yes.

At the same time, it really sticks out like a sore thumb and is out of place in the context of this thread, which despite the simplistic title is more about helping decide between a couple (or several) bottles and the reason for them.

There was actually a recent thread where somebody was asking why this site didn't have a scoring/rating section like "so many other sites" and this conversation probably BELONGED in that thread. But here, it seems, as BarrelChar said (correctly, feud or not) condecending to those asking for an opinion.

Are there people out there that go strictly by ratings? Absolutely. They are actually the vast majority of people, who couldn't care less about what percentage of rye is in Bourbon X. They don't want to research it, they don't care enough. So be it. You know it and I know it.

But stating it here is like preaching to the choir. We know better, but that doesn't mean we can't ask the opinons of other enthusiasts to help give us an opinon. Some of don't have a vast collection of 50ml bottles or even bars that have much more than Maker's and OGD. So we have to reach out to others of similar mind and stature. What is so wrong about that?

[hectic1]

I am not trying to defend BarrelChar by any means, but I do think Chuck should understand that not everyone gets sent samples and invited to industry tasting events and we like to get good bourbon when we spend money on it.

There in lies the truth...YOUR pallet is the only one who should be deciding what is or isn't good bourbon! Arguement over!

[sob0728]

There in lies the truth...YOUR pallet is the only one who should be deciding what is or isn't good bourbon! Arguement over!

If only I knew someone who had hundreds of different bourbons in their basement and could invite me over to taste them....:grin:

[JayMonster]

There in lies the truth...YOUR pallet is the only one who should be deciding what is or isn't good bourbon! Arguement over!

Was anybody disputing that?

[hectic1]

Was anybody disputing that?

Not me...were you?:skep:

[yountvillewjs]

I come here to learn/talk about/enjoy bourbon. I don't drink enough, make enough, nor have the interest in trying everything on the market. I try to parse through the hype, hyperbole and bias to see if there is something about an offering that I might like -- knowing what I tend to enjoy. Do I love all the bourbons I have bought -- no. Did I learn something from all of them -- yep.

I, like many, came to the high end world of bourbon compliments of Mr. Van Winkle. I really honestly enjoy the flavor profile of the 20-year. That said, through further exposure, I have found I prefer higher rye/rye and have gravitated towards purchasing those more frequently.

Did I think Chuck's comment was a little odd -- yes. Out of bounds, not even close. Do I think things have gotten oddly combatitive around here lately? Yes, I do. I hope everyone can stop acting like every post is a campaign promise and just have fun. I come here on my own free time because I want to -- no one here is curing cancer and I like it that way.