Medley Brothers Bourbon

[fussychicken]

Great post Chuck. I figured that Bulleit getting shut out at 4 Roses was a sign of the times, but maybe it isn't so dire.

I still say it would be great if they could get Owensboro back up and running one day...

[Josh]

At the end of the day, I don't care if pappy van winkle himself came back from the dead to sample the whiskey, I'm not going to pay $25 for 4yr old bourbon. I don't buy as much whiskey as I used to, partly thanks to the bottle of wathen's I overpaid for that I have no interest in finishing and partly because I have plenty of reserves on hand. There's plenty of whiskey that I like at $25 and under that I'd rather spend my money on. I did the sentimental thing with Wathen's and I regret it. That's all.

When you factor in proof, it comes out to about the same price as Benchmark, Four Roses, Dickel No. 8, and JB Choice. That's if I did my math right.

[Lazer]

When you factor in proof, it comes out to about the same price as Benchmark, Four Roses, Dickel No. 8, and JB Choice. That's if I did my math right.

That only matters if you add water or want to get drunk. It you drink it neat and don't care about getting drunk then 750ml is 750ml.

[White Dog]

As I wrote in the original post, all three Medley expressions use the same mash bill, so the Medley Brothers is just the 12-year-old at 4-years-old. I tried it and it's very good, very rich with all of the good wood flavors, but with a little bit of grain too.

One thing about bulk whiskey is that, especially in the current environment, you don't always get the pick of the litter. You have to take what the distillery is willing to sell you, which often isn't their best stuff. There are 4-year-olds the distillers will sell in bulk and 4-year-olds they keep for themselves, for their own brands. This tastes more like the ones they keep for themselves.

Who will do contract? As I've said many times, no one is in the bulk whiskey business except when they are, though most of the majors only sell aged whiskey in bulk as inventory adjustments. That's sometimes called the spot market. Almost anyone with the capacity will do contract. Why not? You get paid up front plus you get an income stream from aging, and you never have to worry about selling the stuff when it matures because the NDP owns it. The retail sale is their problem.

Most start-ups can't afford to do contract, they need whiskey they can sell right away. They usually have very little capital to invest and don't want to wait four or five years before they have something to sell. If you're going to do that, you might as well build a distillery. Most contract work is from established businesses. The considerable whiskey that Diageo buys from MGPI and others is all contract. What regional rectifiers like Phillips, Luxco, Frank-Lin and Paramount buy is contract. I suspect Templeton Rye, which has been a successful brand for six or seven years now, has switched from spot to contract.

Heaven Hill uses a contract distilling model with their distributors. The 6-year-old whiskey that will be 7-year-old (theoretically) Evan Williams next year isn't owned by Heaven Hill. They sold it to their distributors years ago, when it came off the still. This allows Heaven Hill to free up capital to invest in more production and gives the distributors a favorable price, especially in an expanding market. Heaven Hill works with its NDP customers the same way. Brown-Forman still has quite a bit of excess capacity in Shively so they're happy to do contract. They just prefer to work with other producers, people who already know the industry. I've never really talked to anyone at Beam about it but I know they do it too and I suspect their attitude is the same. Heaven Hill was probably doing a little less of it until they expanded Bernheim sufficiently, but Heaven Hill has always done both contract and spot as a regular part of their business.

No producer except MGPI has any interest in talking about this part of the business. If you want to write something about them, they'd prefer you write something about the brands they own. Nobody will talk about what products use their whiskey and that's fair. If I'm a contract producer, I'm making and selling whiskey with certain specifications. I don't really know if customer A is using that whiskey to make Brand B. It's none of my business and I don't care.

You also have to remember who Charles Medley is. He's not some guy who one day got a wild hair to start a whiskey business. He's been doing this for 50 years and knows everyone in the business. He was the master distiller at Medley when the family owned it and stayed as master distiller with every subsequent owner, down to and including United Distillers, which became Diageo. When Diageo sold the Owensboro distillery in 1992, Charles bought it. He also bought the 8,000 or so barrels of whiskey that were still in the warehouses. That's what Wathen's single barrel was originally. When that started to run out, they looked around for partners. They needed whiskey, they also needed someone to bottle and distribute it. They worked with Luxco for a while. There was also a period when they weren't doing much of anything. Now it's Frank-Lin, from California, and Sam, son of Charles, is now the driving force. They figure this is a good time to ramp it up. In a couple of years they hope to being doing 30,000 cases, most of that in the Medley Brothers.

Companies like Luxco and Frank-Lin already have contract relationships with distillers, so somebody like Charles can either buy from them or buy directly from the distiller. He buys directly from the distiller.

What does Charles do? He isn't hanging out at the distillery. He's sitting in his office, tasting samples, deciding what's ready and what needs to age a little longer.

Who will do contract under those terms? Just about everybody. The list of who won't is shorter: Maker's, Wild Turkey, Four Roses. In their cases it's just because they don't have enough capacity. With the enlarged distillery, I wouldn't completely rule out Wild Turkey. I suspect, but don't know, that Charles is getting his from Heaven Hill. He was still employed by United Distillers (now Diageo) when new Bernheim was being built, so he knows that distillery. But it could be anybody.

Do I care? Not too much. I know it's one of those guys and I know it's Charles Medley, not Craig Beam or Chris Morris, who is doing the quality control.

I don't want it to sound like I'm working for them because I'm not, but I think there is a qualitative difference between this and the many micro-producer whiskeys that have come on the market recently. I put them in the same category as Angel's Envy.

[Bourbon Boiler]

Great to see this brand back, but agree that it would be even better to see Owensboro up and running.

[cowdery]

That only matters if you add water or want to get drunk. It you drink it neat and don't care about getting drunk then 750ml is 750ml.

Sorry, but that's an absurd statement. Bottled whiskey is a water and alcohol solution. You're paying for the alcohol. You're getting more for your money at 51% ABV than you are at 40%.

[cowdery]

You don't care too much?? Wouldn't natural curiosity lead you to wonder where they're contract distilling? As a leading Bourbon Journalist, wouldn't you have asked Sam that question when you had dinner together? I know that you'll say that the mash-bill and their blending selection is more important, but why leave out this small piece of the puzzle? Oh well...

Now you're just being an idiot. Of course I asked Sam that question. It was the very first question I asked. I said I don't care too much, not that I don't care at all. Of course I'm curious, but I don't let not getting my way all the time make me a sourpuss like some people.

[White Dog]

Now you're just being an idiot. Of course I asked Sam that question. It was the very first question I asked. I said I don't care too much, not that I don't care at all. Of course I'm curious, but I don't let not getting my way all the time make me a sourpuss like some people.

You could have said as much in your earlier posts, in regards to who distills it. But if you'd rather bully and resort to name-calling, well, I've seen it before.

[tmckenzie]

Hey, what if Sam told him and asked Chuck not to reveal the info to the public? Or maybe he did not tell him who made it. In either case it is none of our business. And it would not be very upstanding of Chuck to reveal the source if he was not asked to, so why jump on him?

[tmckenzie]

Either way, if the Medleys are behind it, it will be good product, kudos to them for actually doing it contract instead of bulk. I will support them by buying a bottle for sure.

[TunnelTiger]

I respect Chuck's opinion and will definitely pick up a bottle of this when I see it.

[PaulO]

I did a little looking around and was able to see Wathens and Medly 12 in several places. I've enjoyed Wathens in the past. Not too much lately, simply because there is so much competition in that price range. I would definitely try the Medly Brothers Bourbon for $25, at least one bottle to see if I like it.

[benpearson]

I have to admit that I was surprised by this post. For quite some time I have generally considered Chuck as a bit harsh when it comes to Non-Distiller Producers. This isn't to say that I don't value Chuck’s opinion; he truly has a wealth of knowledge. Part of my viewpoint came from a post about High West on his blog several years ago.

I personally really enjoy High West's products and feel they are as honest as possible in presenting them. For example high west's double rye states on the label that it is "An unusual shotgun mariage of two rye whiskies from two different distilleries back east, DOUBLE RYE!" it further describes the mashmill of each.

Wathens Single Barrel states "Bottled By Charles Medley Distillery Fairfield, CA Distilled in Kentucky." No further information except the prominent “eight generations†on the front label. In my opinion leading many people believe that it is eight years old. I feel the High West label is more honest, but Mr. Cowdery has termed HW a "Potemkin Distillery."

I personally do not so much enjoy the Medley line of products, although I have not had the chance to try the new Medley Brothers Bourbon. I also don’t tend to prefer HH products, so maybe this is an indication of the source, always a hot topic on this forum.

In the end, what it comes down to is a personal preference. I’m glad that Chuck admits “…it’s just NDP whiskey with a story, but it’s good whiskey and a true story.†I’m just shocked that all it took was some dinner to sway his review so far. Either that, or the whiskey that he had was just that good. I suppose I’ll have to pour another glass of each and revisit, it could be that I was having an off night when I tried this product previously. For the sake of fairness I have had dinner with Troy Karnes from High West, and it is theoretically possible that free dinner makes any whiskey better.

This also brings to mind the question of consistency. Could it be possible that the Medley products I have had are different from those that Chuck has had? Are they even from the same source? Consistency isn’t just an issue with NDPs it is also an issue with distillers, but most big ones seem to have solutions on hand to keep quality in check. I ran into this issue with a black maple hill 16yr. A friend swore it was delicious, I thought it was over rated. We brought both of our bottles together and agreed that his was in fact excellent, and the bottle I had was sub par. No way to distinguish between the two by label.

Most likely my tastes just differ from Chuck’s. Nothing wrong with that. I was just surprised that it was even possible for him to enjoy NDP products.

[MyOldKyDram]

Interesting.

Think Ill just go grab a new Campfire when it comes out and skip the Medley stuff.

[HighInTheMtns]

In Chuck's defense, he has come around quite a bit on High West.

[T Comp]

I'm thrilled to know the mash bill. The 13% malted barely is probably what gives the viscous almost oily taste I have always found in the Wathens SB...which I like.

[compliance]

I think the price is a joke for what it is, but I tend to be saying that a lot lately so maybe the joke is on me.

[smokinjoe]

I think the price is a joke for what it is...

Interested to know where the disconnect is for you?

[Richnimrod]

Does anyone know whether, or when their new stuff will be available in Michigan?

I won't be out of the 'Mitten State' for several months.

[compliance]

Interested to know where the disconnect is for you?

12 years old and 86 proof for $50. Not impressed. And the four year old is an even worse value when it comes down to it.

[smokinjoe]

12 years old and 86 proof for $50. Not impressed. And the four year old is an even worse value when it comes down to it.

Actually, I was inquiring on the 4 yr.

[compliance]

I don't have much use for 4yo bourbon at $10, let alone $25.

[smokinjoe]

I don't have much use for 4yo bourbon at $10, let alone $25.

Gotcha. Thanks, now I understand where you're coming from. I'll keep your 4yr/$10 rule in mind in the future.

[Lazer]

Sorry, but that's an absurd statement. Bottled whiskey is a water and alcohol solution. You're paying for the alcohol. You're getting more for your money at 51% ABV than you are at 40%.

[HighInTheMtns]

Really? Go suck on some baby wipes.

Really? All this says to me is "I have no argument but I really want to disagree with Chuck."