BOTM 11/13: Pappy 15

[fishnbowljoe]

Okay, here we go…….

I'm one person that usually doesn't look forward to this time of year. I don't mind the new whiskeys coming out, or the fall release of the BTAC and Van Winkles, etc..etc…etc.. It bothers me because here on the site, we have to go through another bunch of threads about Pappy/Van Winkle stuff! :smiley_acbt: Even though we've even tried to combine all things Van Winkle into one single thread, some of you folks just have to start another one. :banghead: Sheeeesh. What's a mother to do? So, I thought to myself WTF? :skep: I'm just gonna start my own thread about Pappy/Van Winkle, and use the BOTM forum to do it. :cool: Nahhh neh ne nah neh! :slappin:

Just kidding. (For the most part.:grin:) I know that Pappy 15 has been the BOTM before, but it's been a while. Besides, with the Van Winkle release upon us, I thought it would be a good time to make it the BOTM.

So have at it. Whatcha got to say about Pappy 15? :bigeyes:

My thoughts, which I'll try and keep short and sweet; I like Pappy 15. The changes to Pappy 15 a couple of years ago have been pretty much discussed at length here in one thread or another. I, like a lot of people, tend to think that the current Pappy 15, while still good, isn't quite what the older bottlings were. The older Pappy 15 had more depth and character. That's pretty much it in nutshell. I could go on and on, but I'll just leave it at that.

Cheers, and Happy Pappy! Joe

[BMartin42]

Only ever had the 15 at a bar in Louisville as part of a 15/20/23 flight. It was absolutely my favorite of the 3. I do have a bottle in the stash that I got from partysource.com about 4 years ago. Saving it for the daughters graduation or wedding unless I can procure another.

[squire]

Weller 12 with a few extra credits but no higher degree. I liked it well enough but frankly prefer the 10.

[DrBob]

so if I have a 3 yr old bottle of weller 12 I can taste that instead?

[squire]

I believe that's how some retail stores interpret it, yes.

[portwood]

Sorry if this isn't appropriate to the discussion, if so, please move or delete.

I have a bottle of the 15 that a buddy of mine traded for a Springbank a couple of years ago (he didn't like the pappy and I figured it would be my only opportunity to get one at affordable price). The code is: K0790908:44

Can anyone help me date the bottle? (Note: I'm NOT looking to sell, I just want to know if the whiskey is SW, BT, or other)

Thanks

[Restaurant man]

Sorry if this isn't appropriate to the discussion, if so, please move or delete.

I have a bottle of the 15 that a buddy of mine traded for a Springbank a couple of years ago (he didn't like the pappy and I figured it would be my only opportunity to get one at affordable price). The code is: K0790908:44

Can anyone help me date the bottle? (Note: I'm NOT looking to sell, I just want to know if the whiskey is SW, BT, or other)

Thanks

Looks like march 20th 2009. 8:44am

[Kyjd75]

Ok, I'll bite. Have gone through several bottles of PVW15 over past 3 years, and have a couple left in reserve. All bought at retail prices. I think it is the best wheated bourbon I have tried, my favorite of all the PVW variations. I also really like the ORVW10/107 but find the extra age gives the 15 an advantage. Is it worth the "inflated" prices now being asked at many locations? I don't think so. I actually have an open OWA 107 that is as sweet and smooth as can be. I will continue to buy PVW15 when I can find it at "retail" but have to pass if only available at "gouge" prices. Heck, I'd rather pay $175 for one of those 20 yr Willett FEs at the Willett GS.

Disclaimer: FWIW I gave up on the BTAC hunt this year, after successfully tracking down pretty much whatever I wanted past couple of years. Decided hunt wasn't worth the end product. Close to getting that way with PVW (but not entirely yet!).

[portwood]

Looks like march 20th 2009. 8:44am

[Yeti]

I can't answer your question specifically, but your bottle almost certainly has some SW in it. No SW was distilled after 1992, I think that's the only factual thing everyone can agree on when it comes to S-W distillate and the PVW line.

I think PVW 15 is very good. It's certainly hard to find outright fault in it, and I usually only criticize in relation to another whiskey like I did when comparing to ORVW 10/107 from 1985 last month. It's a bourbon that, if available on shelves for $60, I would buy several times a year. It has some easy drinking smoothness that more casual drinkers enjoy, but also a robustness that keeps it from being boring to me. It would be among my primary "share with company" bourbons, again, if it were available. Price not being a factor, it's probably my 2nd favorite of the whole Van Winkle bourbon line, but I have not had 10/107 other than the dusty Lawrenceburg bottle, which is among the finest bourbons I have ever tasted. I'd rather find one 20 than two 15s, but I'd buy them all if given the chance.

[clingman71]

I find the 15 to be the do it all bottling within the VW line. More refined than the ORVW 10/107, more bold than the 20. They all bring something unique. I find that my favorite varies with mood and palate. Anymore I lean toward the 10, some wood, but the bourbon is the star. The 15 takes that and ramps up the wood. I tend to love the elegance of the 20, but less often. By price it is an occasion pour, but to me, it is an occasion pour because of its flavor as well.

I just had a nice pour of 15 last week. Compared to the older bottlings, I get a little less brown sugar, a little more cinnamon, and a little more heat. My perfect pour of 15 would be a combination of the brown sugar and cinnamon without the perceived increase in heat.

[Clavius]

I absolutely adored PVW15 at it's old retail of about $55 a bottle. Over the past few years I've gone through several bottles. Now after the price hike I'd much rather have ORVW 10/107.

[WAINWRIGHT]

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more attention than it has being BOTM considering tis' the season and all.I still do so enjoy the 15 as my preferred pour of the line ,is it different than the past full SW from the mass bottling of 09,yes and it is creeping towards the price point where I will start to lose interest.The SW was a much softer fuller profile as where the BT mingled stuff is quite a bit hotter and a tad more simplistic,but still very good in it's own right.I also fully admit I will still seek it out,I will just divide up my purchases from here on out as every year I seem to buy more and more of the 10yr.I will also add that the heat of the BT stock I thought transitioned nicely into the 20 and added a much needed element of vibrance,call me crazy but I actually prefer the mingled 20 more than the SW.

[DrBob]

No sign of anything pappy or any BTAC for that matter in New Mexico, not even in bars, so its not for lack of desire that I won't be tasting this BOTM

[jeffrey r]

Never had it, and I suspect I never will. Just too hard to find now, and I got in this game too late to have a stash.

I gather the closest I've come to it is my bottles of the V17 wheater, and those are amazing. So I am sure I would love the Pappy 15. Very glad I did stock up on the V17, but should have bought more in retrospect.

[393foureyedfox]

shouldnt the BOTM be something actually attainable? this is gonna be a short thread if only people who HAVE it write about it.

[suntour]

If anyone's got too much Pappy in their bottle(s), you can definitely send it my way via tiny taster samples. I will not fight the hordes to get this but I'd be lying to say the curiosity isn't killing me.

[smknjoe]

I have only had a couple small pours of the BT distilled PVW15 from 2012. It's good stuff. It's basically an older and slightly more complex version of the (BT) ORVW 10/107. I actually did a side-by-side of some OWA (2005), ORVW 10/107 (2012), and PVW15 (2012). There is a clear family resemblance and you can see the slight changes as you go up in years. Yet, they are all still very similar in flavor profile. I personally prefer the ORVW 10 out of the three.

[squire]

shouldnt the BOTM be something actually attainable? this is gonna be a short thread if only people who HAVE it write about it.

What, we need to actually have some on hand to voice an opinion about it? Jeez, that would limit conversation around here. I prefer our congenial, share your thoughts sort of approach.

Edited November 5, 2013 by squire

[squire]

I actually did a side-by-side of some OWA (2005), ORVW 10/107 (2012), and PVW15 (2012). . . . . I personally prefer the ORVW 10 out of the three.

Me too . . . . . . . . . . .

[smknjoe]

While it's not easy to buy a bottle of PVW, it is quite easy to get a pour or two from a bar or friend. I've never owned a bottle myself.

[squire]

Ah, so your friends are both wealthy and generous, I should be so lucky.

[smknjoe]

Ah, so your friends are both wealthy and generous, I should be so lucky.

...this guy...:cool:

[Flyfish]

What, we need to actually have some on hand to voice an opinion about it? Jeez, that would limit conversation around here. I prefer our congenial, share your thoughts sort of approach.

On a recent camping trip, the generator on our RV was acting up and a neighbor came over to help. My wife, looking over our shoulders, offered "helpful advice."

"Does she know a lot about generators?" he asked.

"No," I said, "but that doesn't prevent her from having very definite opinions."

Sitting around, BSing with the boys, is pleasant because we know it is BS and has no serious consequences. Philologists call it phatic communion. Marshall McCluen (what are you doin'?) told us the medium is the message. As an SBer, I can confess to liking HH White in my morning coffee (no cream, thank you) and some other SBer will think that's cool. He might note a hint of espresso bean in HH and suggest that it makes a perfect pairing with the coffee. And so it goes.

[AaronWF]

I have a bottle from '09 open at the moment. I opened it on the 4th of July (because I'm a TRUE AMERICAN@!!@) and mostly lay off of it until I have company over. It's been a few years since I opened a pre-2011 bottle, and coming back to it now, it's much more woody than I remember - more so than the '11 and '12 iterations. It's also much more nuanced than the '11 and '12 bottlings, of which I much preferred the '12.

Aged wheaters are incredibly rare, and BT's Pappy 15, despite the negative connotations attached to its hype and the decline in nuance over the pre-2011 bottlings, still offers something you can't get anywhere else. 15 years is a great length of time for a wheated bourbon to sit in a barrel, and 107° is relatively tame enough to allow a full range of flavors without tiring out the palate too quickly while also providing a satisfying kick.

Going from memory, the 2011 had a grainy texture to it that I did not enjoy. It achieved a nice depth after a few months of air, with caramel and vanilla making their expected appearance, but I don't recall it offering much beyond that. The '12 had a more pleasing texture to me and offered a slightly more buttery caramel that was stunted in nuance by more neutral wood sugars. The '09 doesn't have that problem. The nose is woody and creamy, with milk chocolate caramel and vanilla. The palate comes on oaky with a more fruity caramel on the palate that turns to buttered brown sugar towards the finish. The finish is woody again, but allows an expansion of the caramel notes into that fudgey vanilla butter caramel place that can come through in waves, deepening as it progresses.

I'm interested to see what profiles BT can achieve with Pappy 15 going forward, but the chase for it is definitely a losing battle. It was up to $80 around here last year, and with Binny's pricing, I would not be surprised if it climbs up to $90 this year. I would probably buy a bottle if given the chance, but if the price climbs much higher (which it's bound to do for any bottles that do not see a shelf), it will become just another over-priced curiousity for me.