BOTM 11/13: Pappy 15

[Guy Debord]

No bottles of this for me. I cannot find anything to save my life.

However, in a recent family visit to Louisville I was very fortunate to taste the 2013 BTAC release of William Larue Weller and PVW15 in the same day. The WLW blew away the PVW15, don't get me wrong it is quite delicious, but the WLW is a flavor memory I cannot shake. If I see the antique collection around here, I'm maxing out the credit card.

Happy BOTM to you all!

[BillP]

Can't find any in my Colorado stores right now. Do any of our CO friends know where to find this one?

[HighInTheMtns]

Can't find any in my Colorado stores right now. Do any of our CO friends know where to find this one?

[JPBoston]

I've only had the 10/107, which was probably my favorite bourbon to date (tough call between that, KC120, OGD114). Doubt I'll ever shell out for the 15 now, given the price hikes and availability concerns.

But I'll keep my eye out for the 10/107 and Lot B.... hopefully it's not too insane this year.

William Larue Weller is the real one I'm hoping to score. Not getting my hopes up, as the stores around here don't seem to get much BTAC.

Edited November 7, 2013 by JPBoston

[White Dog]

I agree with a lot of Aaron's points. For me, the last couple of releases have been a bit more "grainy" and have less of the decadent buttery and lush mouthfeel of years past. That said, I love the 15yr for the aggressive qualities, and also the 20yr for the layers of richness.(Not a fan of the 23yr.) And I also enjoy the 10 and 12, although not as much.

While the subject of Pappy does get tiring at times, I also get tired of people who always want to proclaim that there are cheaper Bourbons that are just as good. I enjoy OGD and BT as much as the next guy, but the simply fact is that I love aged wheaters.

Let me say that again. I LOVE AGED WHEATERS. Do I love over-aged Rye-recipe Bourbon, no, but I love this category. And guess what, Kentucky mostly ignores this category, so what the f--k am I supposed to drink? Vintage 17 is gone. PHC Wheater was a one-off. Old Fitz 12yr is just eh. Weller 12yr is not that appealing to my palate. So I'll continue to buy and drink Pappy and Larue, cuz I don't have any other f--kin' options. (You listening, Kentucky?)

And for what it's worth, last year I found 15yr for $80, 20yr for $110, and Larue for $80. And since those are the only ways to drink this category, I gladly paid, and I'll do it again. And yes, there are lots of other great, and less expensive Bourbons in the world, but they are not aged Wheaters.

[Guy Debord]

You tell'em White Dog. I agree, the aged wheater catagory is great, but lacks affordable easy-to-find options. Why not have more 12 and 15 year old wheaters in the $30-$45 range. I would like to see Buffalo Trace do a single barrel 10 year wheat product. How cool would it be to force Maker's Mark to produce a single barrel 12 year of it's recipe?

[matthewdc]

I currently have an ORVW10 and PVW15 open but haven't done a true side by side yet, maybe tonight! However, while I like the ORVW10 a lot, the extra years in the barrel adds some nice complexity and more depth to the juice as well as diffuses the harshness from the abv that I find with the ORVW10. Both very good but preference is with the PVW15.

[squire]

If the demand's there I expect we will see some on the shelves eventually, just 10 years ago the word was rye was on its way out.

[WhiskyRI]

@WhiteDog - testify

[Restaurant man]

[quote name=Guy Debord;377607

However' date=' in a recent family visit to Louisville I was very fortunate to taste the 2013 BTAC release of William Larue Weller and PVW15 in the same day. The WLW blew away the PVW15, don't get me wrong it is quite delicious, but the WLW is a flavor memory I cannot shake. If I see the antique collection around here, I'm maxing out the credit card.

Happy BOTM to you all!

I definitely agree with Aaron's points about PVW15. It stands alone In style but for me if I could grab one of the two it would be WLW. not as old but the barrel proof makes up for that. I just love the stuff. Unfortunately neither of these bottles are growing on trees

[gblick]

Pappy 15 has been one of my favorite bourbons of all time!

But, to me, the Fall '11 bottling seemed to be not as good as previous bottlings, so I haven't bought any more of those newer bottlings, plus the price has gotten just crazy these days. I have an '07 bottle open right now, and it's very good.

:toast:

[smknjoe]

I think I may need a sample of that one Gus. For verification purposes only, of course.

[Vosgar]

I'm working on an '09 that I bought in 2011 (imagine the odds of a PVW15 sitting on the shelf for 2 yrs these days) and it's heaven in a bottle. Glad I was able to buy a few of them ($49.99!). As for the more recent bottlings, a certain moderator asked me to taste a whiskey, without telling me what it was, last spring. I thought it was damn good with a lot of different tastes/flavors to it and he then told me it was the latest PVW15 offering. Haven't done a SBS with any older bottles, but if the price is reasonable I'll buy the new stuff as well.

[nblair]

Pappy 15 has been one of my favorite bourbons of all time!

But, to me, the Fall '11 bottling seemed to be not as good as previous bottlings, so I haven't bought any more of those newer bottlings, plus the price has gotten just crazy these days. I have an '07 bottle open right now, and it's very good.

:toast:

The Fall '11 release was the worst one yet. '12 was significantly better. Pre-'09 is out of this world. Haven't yet tasted the 2013s.

Not that any of them are bad, but some are definitely better than others.

[boneuphtoner]

I have tried all of the Pappy and ORVW line...I currently own one bottle of PVW15 and 3 bottles of ORVW, and in the past year I have consumed one bottle of each. I have sampled the Pappy 20 and 23 year olds in a bar. The Pappy 15 for my palate was my favorite as it was extremely balanced and well integrated. I'm not good as describing the experience as many here, but the best analogy I can think of is in musical terms. The Pappy 15 is like a full symphony orchestra in perfect balance whereas Pappy 20/23 and my Jeffersons Presidential Select could be compared to two very talented soloists (one the sweetness, one the char) playing together as completely separate complementary voices. I think Pappy 20/23 and Jeffersons are more interesting and challenging whiskeys, but to me PVW15 is the most satisfying of the bunch. There are a number of non-wheaters that equal to PVW15 in this regard FOR ME, including a number of Four Roses expressions.

[Chuckles]

Like many on this thread, I am a big fan of aged wheaters, Van Winkles in particular. As I've stated before, I developed my taste for bourbon during my youth by raiding my Pappy's stash of a seemingly endless supply of Old Fitzgerald and other Stitzel-Weller product. I discovered Pappy 15 back in the good old days when Van Winkle products actually made it to the shelves, and my first Pappy 15 made my toes curl with delight. This BOTM is somewhat timely as I was nearing the end of a Pappy 15 I had opened as a vacation treat last summer (probably purchased in Fall of 2011, the last time I was able to find any for sale, but could have been older as I haven't noted the when/where on my purchases). I like this bottle of Pappy 15 just fine, but it doesn't make my toes curl.

So as it's BOTM, I got a bit serious, and had the Mrs. arrange a SBS test, first with Wellers--a 12yo, Antique 107, & WLW. She diluted them to the same strength as necessary. Wasn't really blind as I knew what four I was tasting, and it was really no problem sorting them out, topped by that Pappy 15 tasting better than ever--great complexity, mouth feel, finish. Yum (a symphony of flavors, to borrow from the post above).

A few days later she set up another test for me with Van Winkles--a Lot B and an Old Rip 10/90--plus the WLW. (She was so amused by this routine that she snapped a photo--attached.) This time I got all confused, again thinking my favorite was the Pappy 15, but it was actually the Lot B (the Pappy 15 was runner-up and I even favored the Old Rip to the WLW). Not too big a surprise as I've had some honey Lot Bs in the past that have made my toes curl.

If given the opportunity (such as being selected in a store lottery or being looked upon with favor by a favorite retailer), I'll probably still pick up a Pappy (or a Lot at a premium price, but I won't embark on an odyssey to find them as I did in 2011. Aren't we in the midst of a whiskey renaissance? For prices at or below a Pappy's, I can go to my big Binny's (and elsewhere) and choose from many marvelous bottles--and without jumping through any hoops.

[squire]

We are indeed in the midst of a Bourbon/Rye renaissance, more choices than ever and even more exciting choices to come.

[Chuckles]

Per my post above, the pic I mentioned attaching isn't there because I couldn't remember how to add an image (not that it was all that great a pic). And I just got confused by the FAQ answer as to how to add a pic to a reply. Seems like it was pretty easy the last time I added an image. Can some kindly soul walk me through it simply? Cheers, Charlie

[squire]

I've found having a drink helps.

[Trey Manthey]

As I write this I'm killing the last of what looks to be a Spring 2012 bottle that I opened earlier this year. This one didn't win me over like some of the older bottles of PVW15 I've had, which is probably why it took so long for me to kill it. The palate is much more open and enjoyable than a pour of 50/50 SB Blend, but the a palate and finish are not great. Too much alcohol and a bitter wood taste. Good long finish, but I'm not savoring it.

[Eskwar]

I got to try my first P15 this week, at a bar near me that had received such for the first time, along with an ORVW10--both 2013s. So, I did a SBS. I'm turrrrible at notes, but I vividly recall liking the P15 significantly more. It wasn't a blind tasting, as my goal was to find the ORVW10 every bit as good as the P15 (since I've got a bottle of the former, but none of the latter, at home). The nose on the 10 was more alcohol-ish, the taste of the P15 was more maple-y rich, while the P15 had a finish like nothing else I could recall (not like the ORVW, not like OWA7 or W12, not like Jeff 17, or EC18, or any of those FR Barrel Proofers) -- I don't know what that finish was, but I certainly liked it.

[squire]

Good notes Esk, I'd much rather read what someone likes rather than a list of descriptors.

[nblair]

As I write this I'm killing the last of what looks to be a Spring 2012 bottle that I opened earlier this year. This one didn't win me over like some of the older bottles of PVW15 I've had, which is probably why it took so long for me to kill it. The palate is much more open and enjoyable than a pour of 50/50 SB Blend, but the a palate and finish are not great. Too much alcohol and a bitter wood taste. Good long finish, but I'm not savoring it.

[Old Dusty]

Until they make their way through all of the Bernheim, I think bitter will be an adjective we hear frequently.

Weller 12 is a good example. If you think it tastes "sooty", crack open a bottle from the most recent release bottled this summer. Not sooty at all. Transitioned from Bernheim to BT. It will be interesting to see how this also changes the Van Winkle line in the upcoming years.

[nblair]

No expert on Bernheim, but if that's what is in the V17 then bitter is the last descriptor I would use. It is sweet like candy apple or apple strudel. And if I'm not mistaken the sooty W12's have been the more recent BT versions. The older ones- and I have a few are not that way at all. IMO and YMMV disclaimers apply.

IMO and YMMV always apply when it comes to bourbon, well said. If you taste some recent release Weller 12 side by side with last year's, you'll see what I mean. Try it.

As for V17, I don't know what they were using. I believe it was assumed Bernheim, but I think they may have had some BT wheat as well. I can't help much on that one.