W.L. Weller 12-year Basically Pappy?

[House of Bourbon]

Tried the W.L. Weller 12-year at the Party Source. Dude said, "We don't have any bottles for sale. But if you can find it, buy it. It's basically Pappy."

Truth? Nonsense? And go!

[smknjoe]

It is almost identical to the current "Lot B." Neither one are very good - to me. It is not anything at all like ORVW 10, PVW 15, 20 (and 23 I assume.)

[House of Bourbon]

Good to know. Thx.

It is almost identical to the current "Lot B." Neither one are very good - to me. It is not anything at all like ORVW 10, PVW 15, 20 (and 23 I assume.)

[Parkersback]

Good to know. Thx.

Welcome to the board, Kenny.

The search function is your friend: there are multiple threads discussing the shared provenance of the Weller products and Van Winkle products. Take a look around and you'll get to listen in on some good conversations that have been had over the years.

[squire]

It's correct to say they share the same base whisky but Pappy is the product of specific warehouse location and limited barrel selection. Barrels of Pappy could be included in a basic Weller mix but not the other way around.

[House of Bourbon]

Thanks for the warm welcome. Excited to be here and look around.

Welcome to the board, Kenny.

The search function is your friend: there are multiple threads discussing the shared provenance of the Weller products and Van Winkle products. Take a look around and you'll get to listen in on some good conversations that have been had over the years.

[Josh]

First off, there is no 12 y/o Pappy Van Winkle. There is the 12 y/o Van Winkle Special Reserve, Lot B. Second, Weller and Van Winkle are both wheated bourbons made with the same recipe, at the same distillery. So they are similar.

They are not the same though. As others have mentioned, they are selected from different barrels in different locations by (slightly) different people. So it depends on what the store owner meant by "basically".

I don't agree that Weller 12 is not good. I like it. Lot B is fine but I think it's overpriced and too hard to find.

[Josh]

Oh and welcome. :cool:

[smknjoe]

I don't agree that Weller 12 is not good. I like it. Lot B is fine but I think it's overpriced and too hard to find.

It's the most "scotch like" bourbon I've ever had.

Ninety eight percent of the people here would disagree with my take on Weller 12...and bet they all like scotch too.

[dcbt]

It's the most "scotch like" bourbon I've ever had.

Ninety eight percent of the people here would disagree with my take on Weller 12...and bet they all like scotch too.

it's amazing to me how different palates can be. I have never tasted a scotch I can tolerate, let alone enjoy. But I really like Weller 12.

Herman Marshall, though, now there's a scotch-like bourbon to me (that I therefore dislike).

[kcgumbohead]

Yes same recipe, no not the same result, they do not taste the same or similar though I enjoy both (P15/W12).

[kcgumbohead]

I second the recommendation to "search" This horse has been beaten into several afterlives. Enough reading to keep you entertained for a good part of yours, and you'll lean a lot too. This is a phenomenal community with a ton of great information.

Welcome!!

[Old Dusty]

You will find multiple posts on this topic and as pointed out the search function will be a big help. There are multiple opinions about the comparison of W12 to the Van Winkle line. The easy answer is that there is only one wheated mashbill at Buffalo Trace. So all of the wheated bourbons they produce NOW start from the same distillate. This includes all of the standard Wellers, the Van Winkles (2013 was supposed to be the last year for SW in the 23) and the BTAC WLW. They will tell you that from there the differences are in the barrel placement, and in the selection process. You can believe them or not and your palate should be your guide. I can tell you that for my money I will go with the W12 over the Lot B 10 times out of 10 as they are currently produced and currently priced.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Old Dusty

[clingman71]

Welcome. My .02, more consistency in VW12, but the best bottles of Weller 12 equal that of the VW.

[CL]

Welcome. There are no secrets in bourbon. Once a fact is known, it is disseminated very quickly across SB.com, FB, etc.

Others have answered why Weller 12 is different from Lot B. But, here is the biggest clue. Weller 12 is still in abundance in the states where it is traditionally is distributed (e.g., TX, FL). If it were Lot B or like Lot B, the "secret" would be out and the W12 shelves would be cleared. The other clue is you would find them selling for a premium on the secondary market. You don't except for a few isolated cases.

P.S. Well, there are some secrets in bourbon with some NDP products, but that's a different topic. ;-)

[gooneygoogoo]

it's amazing to me how different palates can be. I have never tasted a scotch I can tolerate, let alone enjoy. But I really like Weller 12.

Herman Marshall, though, now there's a scotch-like bourbon to me (that I therefore dislike).

I agree with you on this. I don't like any Scotch I have ever tried but I love Weller 12...just damn good bourbon

[Scotch Neat]

Funny, I see this time and time again VW12 = W12 but never tasted a W12 that was = to VW12.

I am no expert on the subject but I think that the recipes are tweaked somewhat.

[House of Bourbon]

Right. ABC Liquor in Florida has over 400 bottles in stock. So, there's that.

Welcome. There are no secrets in bourbon. Once a fact is known, it is disseminated very quickly across SB.com, FB, etc.

Others have answered why Weller 12 is different from Lot B. But, here is the biggest clue. Weller 12 is still in abundance in the states where it is traditionally is distributed (e.g., TX, FL). If it were Lot B or like Lot B, the "secret" would be out and the W12 shelves would be cleared. The other clue is you would find them selling for a premium on the secondary market. You don't except for a few isolated cases.

P.S. Well, there are some secrets in bourbon with some NDP products, but that's a different topic. ;-)

[TunnelTiger]

Tried the W.L. Weller 12-year at the Party Source. Dude said, "We don't have any bottles for sale. But if you can find it, buy it. It's basically Pappy."

Truth? Nonsense? And go!

Unless your dealer has proven to be reliable over a period of time don't believe anything they say. We have few members on here that are in the retail business and are trustworthy but I feel the majority are not.

Oh and welcome.

[smknjoe]

Funny, I see this time and time again VW12 = W12 but never tasted a W12 that was = to VW12.

I am no expert on the subject but I think that the recipes are tweaked somewhat.

They are the exact same recipe. The only difference is barrel location and selection.

[squire]

Unless your dealer has proven to be reliable over a period of time don't believe anything they say. We have few members on here that are in the retail business and are trustworthy but I feel the majority are not.

I would seek out our guys first if I was in their neighborhood.

[soad]

It's like identical twins. They start off with the same genetics, but look at them in their 40s or 50s and life experiences have changed their looks and personality.

[squire]

Yeah but they're great in their early 20s.

[Quantum]

Funny, I see this time and time again VW12 = W12 but never tasted a W12 that was = to VW12.

I am no expert on the subject but I think that the recipes are tweaked somewhat.

I have found a couple bottles of Weller 12 that are as good as any Lot B 12 yr I have tried from the last several years, but the vast majority have been a significant step down.

If you want to include aging location and barrel selection as parts of the "recipe", you could say they are different, but the liquid that enters the barrel is identical for all Wellers and Van Winkles.

[mbroo5880i]

One question that I have is "do the Van Winkles select the distillate to be aged as Pappy when it comes off the still or does that selection come later after some aging? In other words, is Pappy designated from the beginning or after some aging?