W.L. Weller 12-year Basically Pappy?

[smknjoe]

It all comes off the still as the standard wheated recipe destined for Weller. The VWs pick barrels for their brand from a particular area of a warehouse that they prefer and that's it. The combination of barrel location, single barrel variation, barrel blending, and barrel selection are what distinguish VW from standard Weller.

Edit: that area of that warehouse they prefer may be reserved for VW, but I don't know.

Edited May 25, 2014 by smknjoe

[mbroo5880i]

I knew the VWs pick their barrels from a particular area of a warehouse they prefer. I am curious whether they select the barrels after some aging has already occurred and they select and reject barrels from the same area. If the latter occurs, then some whiskey goes on to be PVW and some goes on to be Weller?

[smknjoe]

I assume they check the barrels periodically to see how they are progressing. How often, I don't know.

[squire]

According to comments Julian made during a recent interview the BT warehouse staff monitor the barrels and on some occasions do the barrel selection as well.

[cowdery]

About all you can say for sure, and all that really matters, is that the Van Winkles are involved in 'making' Van Winkle, through the mechanisms described above, and they aren't involved in 'making' Weller in the same sense. It's not for nothing because Julian has always been very good at that.

So while they may have 'their' barrels, I'm sure there is crossover. They work together and it's in everyone's interest to make the Van Winkle magic. The real point is that if you really care about drinking good whiskey and don't care to go to the trouble and expense of getting 'the badge' then Weller (any Weller) is a more than adequate substitute. Beyond that, come on. It's just whiskey.

[Flyfish]

Why aren't we all up in arms because of VWs lack in 'integrity" in passing off ordinary Weller as something special? Other than, perhaps, ordinary Weller is something special. The VW honey barrels are just a tad more special. Does the Pappy label say where it made? Where's the outrage?

[dmarkle]

Why aren't we all up in arms because of VWs lack in 'integrity" in passing off ordinary Weller as something special? Other than, perhaps, ordinary Weller is something special. The VW honey barrels are just a tad more special. Does the Pappy label say where it made? Where's the outrage?

Hey, I'm outraged that I haven't been able to get a bottle of Weller 12 in the past two years because of threads like this!

:hot:

[squire]

The fire of outrage against Pappy is extinguished by the flood of public opinion.

[HP12]

The fire of outrage against Pappy is extinguished by the flood of public opinion.

...and the desire to acquire! Nice little adage there Squire. Well done!

[wadewood]

Why aren't we all up in arms because of VWs lack in 'integrity" in passing off ordinary Weller as something special? Other than, perhaps, ordinary Weller is something special. The VW honey barrels are just a tad more special. Does the Pappy label say where it made? Where's the outrage?

Because if you are anything but the most basic of bourbon newbie, then you know truth behind current Van Winkle. Even liquor store salesmen (as indicated by newbie House of Bourbon revelation) know and they generally don't know squat.

[sutton]

Anyone who cares to check can find out where PVW comes from now, not as clear what was in the various bottlings before and there were many variations on what was in those transition bottles and when, but it was clear that a transition to BT was underway. But it was never any secret who is making it now compared to the level of disclosures/obfuscation from other NDPs that have been discussed here.

That may be a distinction without a difference ...

Edit: What Wade said!

[Flyfish]

Because if you are anything but the most basic of bourbon newbie, then you know truth behind current Van Winkle. Even liquor store salesmen (as indicated by newbie House of Bourbon revelation) know and they generally don't know squat.

Sorry for being unclear, Wade and Sutton. I just thought SBers might appreciate the contrast in attitudes between acceptance of Pappy and the kerfuffle raised by newbie HOB's "revelation." Using HOB's standards, VW lacks integrity for not being more forth coming on their labels. Still, nobody accuses them of being deceitful SOBs for selling "Weller" at outrageous prices or passing off BT juice as their own. We are not outraged because we are anal retentive enough to be interested in minutiae that the average consumer knows little about. But how are newbies supposed to know you don't find the truth just by reading the label?

[clingman71]

Saying that VW is deceitful for selling off Weller (both BT wheated distillate) at outrageous prices is no different than saying BT is selling Stagg ( both BT mashbill) at outrageous prices. 3 bourbon distillates come out of BT for how many labels? Last time I checked, the oldest Weller at 107 proof was @ or < 7 years old, no 10 or 15. Every major distiller has quality distillate, it's the barrels, aging location, and placement that makes the biggest difference between identical mashbills. VW isn't hiding anything in my opinion, unlike many NDPs.

[dmarkle]

...Using HOB's standards, VW lacks integrity for not being more forth coming on their labels. Still, nobody accuses them of being deceitful SOBs for selling "Weller" at outrageous prices or passing ..

I do think it's pretty different. It's hard to conceive of a world where the Van Winkles don't have significant input in how the whiskey is made -- surely they do, and surely they have... Surely, they know where their choice barrels are likely to be, and surely they have a priority inside the rickhouse(s) for placement as well. Who knows? (JVW) It might even be a better arrangement than what he had when they were buying S-W juice back in the day. Of course, back then, he was running a pretty small operation, under the radar...

Anyway, the Van Winkles are hardly what I'd categorize as any old NDP... Maybe you could make this argument with their rye offering, since it was (at least originally, if I'm not mistaken) rye that JVW discovered a while back, thought was very special, then bottled and sold.

[Flyfish]

VW isn't hiding anything in my opinion, unlike many NDPs.

Right. But my point is that you would have to be a well informed bourbon drinker to make the distinction. A newbie might be appalled to find out that "the best bourbon in the world" is just exalted Weller.

Let's see if I can be clearer still: I am NOT accusing VW of anything underhanded. I am saying that it is understandable that some newbie might run amok because he does not come to the issue as well informed as you are. You know the difference between VW and "many NDPs." Your typical newbie doesn't even know what an NDP is. He may be shocked to discover that his bourbon is not made by elves who operate little stills down in the hollow the way it says on the label.

How is the newbie supposed to know that 87 or so bourbons come from BT? My bottle of Blanton's, for example, says Blanton's Distilling Company and my W12 says W.L. Weller and Sons. Is there any BT bourbon other than BT itself that says BT on the label? My guess is there a lots and lots of people who really like HH bourbons but have never, ever heard of HH. EW Blk is a huge best seller but the label on my bottle says "Bottled by Old Evan Williams Distillery." There ain't no such place. Squire might call it a legal fiction. Enthusiasts know and accept this sort of thing but for the newbie it can be like discovering that his parents actually had sex. The horror! The horror!

[smokinjoe]

All I can say is that this years Van Winkle 10 yr release was absolutely magnificent, in my opinion. It was the first of the recent offerings of VW whiskey from 100% BT distillate, that reached back to the S-W days with its depth, syrupy mouth-feel, and balance. Personally, I feel BT wheaters lose the syrupiness at 12 yrs, which is why I have preferred OWA over it. But, they were able to coax it out at 10 years. Maybe, they can do the same with Lot B.

[wadewood]

Sorry for being unclear, Wade and Sutton. I just thought SBers might appreciate the contrast in attitudes between acceptance of Pappy and the kerfuffle raised by newbie HOB's "revelation." Using HOB's standards, VW lacks integrity for not being more forth coming on their labels. Still, nobody accuses them of being deceitful SOBs for selling "Weller" at outrageous prices or passing off BT juice as their own. We are not outraged because we are anal retentive enough to be interested in minutiae that the average consumer knows little about. But how are newbies supposed to know you don't find the truth just by reading the label?

As much grief as I give those who fail to properly list State of Distillation on label, maybe I should be upset about this as well. I guess I've known about it for so long that I just accepted it. Perhaps it's time for an open letter to Julian Van Winkle? Actually I don't find Van Winkle prices, SRP prices, that outrageous at all. The secondary market is outrageous but I don't blame that on BT or the Van Winkles.

When you learn the truth about Van Winkle, you go from being in the generally population bourbon boom crowd to becoming a Newbie Bourbon Enthusiast. Perhaps before you can join straightbourbon.com, you should have the question where is Pappy Van Winkle 15 currently distilled correctly?

[squire]

There has to be a best because consumers expect one and how it got there is secondary.

[Old Dusty]

All I can say is that this years Van Winkle 10 yr release was absolutely magnificent, in my opinion. It was the first of the recent offerings of VW whiskey from 100% BT distillate, that reached back to the S-W days with its depth, syrupy mouth-feel, and balance. Personally, I feel BT wheaters lose the syrupiness at 12 yrs, which is why I have preferred OWA over it. But, they were able to coax it out at 10 years. Maybe, they can do the same with Lot B.

Joe, totally agree. I would be very content-given availability and at MSRP- to make the 10/107 my go to pour. Unfortunately I am not given availability or at MSRP.:cool: Much preferred this year's 10 to this year's Lot B.

[WhiskyToWhiskey]

The only 3 wheaters I have had are MM, Weller 12 and Lot B. When I purchase Weller it stays on the shelf awhile, because I really need to be in the mood for a wheater (prefer Booker's, Knob Creek, 4R, Blanton's). I would take Lot B over Weller 12...but definitely not at triple the price.

[DocHolliday]

Love me some Weller 12 year and 107.

[dcbt]

A newbie might be appalled to find out that "the best bourbon in the world" is just exalted Weller.

[squire]

Weller is basking in the glow of the Pappy aura.

[TunnelTiger]

So how long before a marketing genius submits a label for "Pappy Jr.", "Young Pappy", "Pappy Light", or "Son of Pappy"?

[squire]

Just so long as they stay away from Baby Pappy.