Diageo's Orphans Don't Interest Me

[cowdery]

I know we're supposed to care about orphans but Diageo's Orphan Barrels don't interest me very much. I'm not on a crusade against them -- they can do what they want with their whiskey and their money -- they just haven't sold me on either the series or any of the individual releases.

Why not? First, I find them insulting. They have what is presumably some interesting bourbon but instead of presenting it in a straightforward way, they create these fanciful brands with fanciful packaging and jokey names, which I find silly and belittling. It's a scotch company treating American whiskey like soda pop. Do you think they would do that with whiskey from Oban, or Talisker, or Lagavulin?

Second, and this isn't their fault, I don't generally care for whiskey in that age range. That's just me, I know, but that's another reason why I'm not that interested.

Third, it was like pulling teeth to get them to reveal the true provenance of the whiskey, after pretending that they didn't know. I'm not interested in playing those games, hence my low level of interest in these products.

That's probably it, but that's enough. I'll taste them if given the opportunity. Well, I should say given another opportunity. I had one opportunity this winter but the weather was bad that day. Like I said, I'm not very interested.

[compliance]

I'm with you on the labels. A lot of people say they like them, but they're played out caricatures of old timey things. Like the douchy bartender at the "speakeasy" whiskey bar with the curly waxed mustache. You're trying too hard guys.

I would like to try the bourbons, especially Blow Hard since I like oak and never had a bourbon that old. Not interested in a whole bottle at those prices though.

[GaryT]

For me, if I don't know who made it and the price tag is in the range that these are - I have to try it before I buy it. If I like the whiskey in the bottle, I frankly don't care what goofy labels they put on the stuff. The "story" associated is also something I mainly ignore (as I do with the other distilleries; I mean, who bought the "Forgiven" story really?) But, I will say, if I try one and like the whiskey enough for the buck - I'll get one. Thus far, I've only tried the Barterhouse, which was what you might expect for a bourbon in that age. Like Chuck, I'm not a big fan of bourbon that is that old (with some exceptions), as I just don't like that much oak in my whiskey.

[sutton]

There must have been quite a few "orphans" for the amount of Barterhouse I've seen around. Haven't seen much of the Blowhard, but pricing I've seen on that from $110 to $200 is enough reason to ignore it.

And now that there is a third brand being released (and how many more?), you have to wonder what is really going on here. Also rumors that they may be doing the same with some of the single malts?

I don't feel like helping Diageo clear out old stuff at ridiculous prices that the independents, NDPs, and even their ubiquitous brands can't find a home for.

[dcbt]

I wasn't interested for the longest time mainly because of the third reason you cited. I kept passing them up but finally pulled the trigger after at least reading decent taste reviews. That was over two months ago and I still haven't opened them. Guess I'm still not that interested after all...

[OscarV]

I got my Whisky Advocate magazine Friday and there are 3 full page ads for each of these Orphan brands.

The Old Blowhard and Barterhouse say Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey on the label.

The Rhetoric says Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey on the label.

That tells us something, I think.

[clingman71]

I got my Whisky Advocate magazine Friday and there are 3 full page ads for each of these Orphan brands.

The Old Blowhard and Barterhouse say Kentucky Bourbon Whiskey on the label.

The Rhetoric says Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey on the label.

That tells us something, I think.

Doesn't "straight" simply mean 2+ years old? These are age stated, so isn't "straight" irrelevant? Not tying to be a prick, it just seems like a non-issue.

as for the bourbons, luckily I am a reasonable distance from TPS and their spirits library. I found Blowhard to be overly oaky, not a fan. I split a bottle of Barterhouse with a friend, very oaky, but drinkable. I would not purchase again. I will try Rhetoric at TPS when it arrives.

I believe that there are stages to one's bourbon "education", you need to try a wide variety of bourbons. Not to say that I won't continue to land a PVW15 every year or two, and the occasional BTAC, but my recent retailer selected barrels of OWA -$22 and ER10 - $29 have me questioning ever going over the $30 mark for anything but the "occasion" bottle every so often.

[bourboNcigars]

Same here I'm avoiding it like a girl with the flu, considering how old and rare I keep getting told it is by retailers it's amazing how much stock is on hand, one binnys had 6 cases just sitting there and shelves full of it

[DaveOfAtl]

It's funny how the lack of scarcity works against Barterhouse in some whiskey circles. I suppose the fact that it is readily available makes it less worthy of a car shot to post on the Bourbon Porn Facebook page, but I for one really like the stuff and am happy to be able to find it. It's also very reasonably priced for 20 year old bourbon, especially in the current market. Of course, many people don't like their bourbon that old, but for those that do it's refreshing not to have to scour the ends of the earth and get on waiting lists to get a bottle.

[dSculptor]

I tried 'em both, they both are good in their own way,I do prefer the OB by far, but I don't get as much of the oak profile in either of them as a lot of you guys are saying it has out here. Every now and then I can afford to splurge on a $70-$80 bottle,and if it's 20 yrs. old ..I'll be your Huckleberry.

[squire]

I believe it was P.T. Barnum who said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. Apparently Diageo buys into that line of thinking and instead of presenting some remarkable whisky with a very interesting back story we get this.

[smokinjoe]

It's funny how the lack of scarcity works against Barterhouse in some whiskey circles. I suppose the fact that it is readily available makes it less worthy of a car shot to post on the Bourbon Porn Facebook page, but I for one really like the stuff and am happy to be able to find it. It's also very reasonably priced for 20 year old bourbon, especially in the current market. Of course, many people don't like their bourbon that old, but for those that do it's refreshing not to have to scour the ends of the earth and get on waiting lists to get a bottle.

This is an excellent observation and analysis, D. Funny how scarcity, or the lack thereof, thing works in our sandbox. I'll say again to anyone who wants to listen, Barterhouse is a nice representation of a 20 year old bourbon. Not blow your doors off spectacular, but solid, and without anything off-putting. And at its price point, I would recommend it to anyone who wants to experience what a 20 year old bourbon tastes like, without breaking the bank. I'll add just one thing, I think the nose on it is very very nice.

[TunnelTiger]

This is an excellent observation and analysis, D. Funny how scarcity, or the lack thereof, thing works in our sandbox. I'll say again to anyone who wants to listen, Barterhouse is a nice representation of a 20 year old bourbon. Not blow your doors off spectacular, but solid, and without anything off-putting. And at its price point, I would recommend it to anyone who wants to experience what a 20 year old bourbon tastes like, without breaking the bank. I'll add just one thing, I think the nose on it is very very nice.

Agree with Joe 100%. In fact now that my bottle has been open two weeks the nose is even more defined. Twenty year old bourbon for less than $70 is not bad.

[Tony Santana]

I bought a bottle, I like it, but I'm not blown away by it. A tad too oaky for me. I doubt I'll buy another but I don't regret buying the bottle, I pretty much knew what I was getting into.

I think the labels are kind of cool. All that other stuff is incidental though. As has been amply demonstrated on other threads on this board, the industry is rarely completely honest or transparent. Just about every company is guilty of it to some degree. I'll draw my own line when it comes to ethics - to my knowledge Diageo isn't committing genocide or clubbing baby seals. They're trying to sell booze. I'm not going to get my undies in a bunch over some hokey marketing or a less than forthcoming backstory.

[squire]

Untwist the knickers and you take the fun out of being a geek.

[HighInTheMtns]

I totally don't get the hate on these. I've posted my thoughts plenty, but they're in line with smokinjoe's.

I believe it was P.T. Barnum who said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people. Apparently Diageo buys into that line of thinking and instead of presenting some remarkable whisky with a very interesting back story we get this.

This, a thousand times. Put this same whiskey in a nerdy bottle with a label full of facts, and the reception here would likely be different.

[Tony Santana]

Yeah, I know, it's part of what makes us geeks. I know about it, read about it, sometimes comment on it. I can spout off about stuff in front of my not quite as geeky friends and sound knowledgable. At the end of the day, though, what I really care about is how good the bourbon is.

[T Comp]

First, I find them insulting. They have what is presumably some interesting bourbon but instead of presenting it in a straightforward way, they create these fanciful brands with fanciful packaging and jokey names, which I find silly and belittling. It's a scotch company treating American whiskey like soda pop. Do you think they would do that with whiskey from Oban, or Talisker, or Lagavulin?

Insightful point from someone who has some cause, going back to at least 2004, for what Diageo can now do with American whiskey. Love Dave's observation too. But of course how could whiskey culture of today be, without just a little irony. And Barterhouse has given me enough enjoyment to satisfy me.

And if you believe John Hansell is in lockstep with his advertisers...check out his opinion and rating of Old Blowhard.

[camduncan]

I remember enjoying what I tasted at the Sampler last month, but wasn't blown away. They were at most liquor stores I visited, so the fact that I chose to bring a bottle of Crown Royal Maple home instead probably speaks volumes for what I thought at the time. I may regret that choice in years to come, but so be it.

[Richnimrod]

For my two-cents worth...

The Barterhouse is good. I wouldn't say great; but a solid pour, and right up to the edge of what I like in 'woody' bourbon.

I'm not sorry I bought it, and will enjoy it at those times when I want a slow sipper, maybe over a tiny cube.

I passed on The Old Blowhard since it's age is so advanced (mine too, I guess, but who's counting);

besides; the name is just so damned hokey! Apparently many find it just tooooo woody, so a good decision, maybe?

[kjbeggs]

I've got a bottle of each, yet still just haven't found a night when i feel like trying them out. My luck, I'll open them up and discover I really like one of them just about the time it disappears from store shelves.

[horn1602]

I have a bottle of each of these as well. Moving in 2.5 months, but I want to move as few open bottles as possible, so I likely won't crack these open until the move is over. I am curious about the whiskey in the bottle and intend to approach them optimistically despite the kitschy packaging.

[393foureyedfox]

I tried the Barterhouse while out to a nice dinner w/ Mrs. Fox months ago. I figured I'd never see a bottle (havent looked though), and took the opportunity to try a 20 year old whiskey for $12, which I thought was fair for a restaurant price. The nose was outstanding, the whiskey itself was good, but I'm not gonna say outstanding. I was surprised to find it wasnt oaky, at least not to an extreme. I think $70 for 20 year old whiskey is a steal, these days. Still too high for me, but If I wanted a 20+ year old bottle of something, I'd look nowhere else, currently.

[HighInTheMtns]

I tried the Barterhouse while out to a nice dinner w/ Mrs. Fox months ago. I figured I'd never see a bottle (havent looked though), and took the opportunity to try a 20 year old whiskey for $12, which I thought was fair for a restaurant price. The nose was outstanding, the whiskey itself was good, but I'm not gonna say outstanding. I was surprised to find it wasnt oaky, at least not to an extreme. I think $70 for 20 year old whiskey is a steal, these days. Still too high for me, but If I wanted a 20+ year old bottle of something, I'd look nowhere else, currently.

I'm just gonna say that if you'd posted this a year ago, I'd have thought some impostor had stolen your password

[The Black Tot]

I really enjoy the Old Blowhard, and as others have noted, I don't see many other 26yr old whiskeys lining up to be purchased at any price, much less 150.

Unfortunately I do like older whiskeys - unfortunately because this isn't going to make my life easier in the long run. But hey, I like some younger ones too, and I bit the bullet and bunkered these orphan barrels so I'm good.

If I looked deeply enough into ANY bourbon release, I'm confident I'd find some business practice that was insulting or disingenuous at at least one of the stages of either production or marketing.

But Squire's post about keeping the knickers tight is likely as insightful as it was entertaining.

Stay offended, guys. At least until I've decided if I want to bunker a few more.

tbt