squire Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Even if they completely refurbished the old Stitzel-Weller distillery down to the last brick and bolt it wouldn't make the same whisky. Could be worse or it could be better but it wouldn't be the same. The still could be run mechanically as it was in the past but the cooking, mashing, fermenting and other procedures under computer control would be consistent but lack the individuality of whisky made under Van Winkle ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compliance Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I think you guys are misreading the situation here. I bet Diageo is making huge bank on these as they expected to. Just because it's still on shelves doesn't mean it's not performing exactly how they want. You can't sell bourbon that's not on shelves. Diageo is big and they want volume, so it's on lots of shelves selling and cycling in new inventory. They scoff at ECBP and Stagg. The sales numbers on those are a drop in the bucket. As for Bulleit, I'd say it is setting the world on fire. Stuff is stocked in just about every bar and grocery store coast to coast and has carved out a name for itself with casual drinkers. You are thinking too much like an enthusiast Black Tot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) Quite so, compliance - that's why I wanted to discuss it.I wondered if other people saw the Orphans sitting on shelves as a bad thing for their kind of market. The Orphans are enthusiast products, so perhaps enthusiast thinking is appropriate?@Squire - I know it wouldn't make the same whiskey. Even SW didn't make the same whiskey time over time - the individuality you mentioned above. But the history and its saleability is the point. This is hardly unique - It's hard to find a distillery that isn't trying to make themselves look like they taste better because grandpa Elijah What'shisface has been distilling here since 200 years ago. SW has the mother of all back stories. And if you set up a serious team to make a hard core awesome whiskey there, you could sell that, and it doesn't matter a lick if it tastes like old SW did.Also, if we've reached the point that we know that computer control is what's holding us back from reaching the highs of the old days, then it's time somebody figured out either how to improve the computerized strategies, or how to do it another way. And where better (conceptually) to try that then at a site like SW?tbt Edited August 16, 2014 by The Black Tot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Also, I don't know about the computer argument.We are meant to think the guys at SW got lucky and had a twinkle in their eye.I think if someone had the conviction to take computer control in the direction required they could make an old-school whiskey. Something that there is a market for.Sony has a computer that can replicate a piano performance by the deceased Glenn Gould pretty darned well. I'm pretty sure they can make old school whiskey. They just need to be given the right instruction set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 We're getting waaaaaay off track. My apologies for contributing to it. Need to take the S-W discussion to another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Yeah that's fine. It was a Diageo strategy discussion, at least.tbt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbroo5880i Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I don't mind seeing higher end whiskey being a little slower moving. I don't see myself buying any of the current offerings. Not that I don't have interest. Obviously, most bourbon/whiskey enthusiasts do. It is just that the price is a little higher than I can justify right now. Again, not that it isn't worth it. I just don't want to fork over the price that I am seeing. However, I think Diageo is probably doing fine and will continue to do fine with this line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 The OrphBarl's are sort of a curiosity to me as most bourbons over 8 years old are not tasty to me (Lot B excepted, but I no longer crave it at anything over $60/750ml). SO, after reading the 10 pages of comments (some of them late at night, others several times on subsequent visits to see what's new), I visited the Diageo website to read through their financials, etc., for the tax year ended 30 June 2014. Their North American sales went up slightly, and their profit margins increased slightly. Their bourbon/non-scotch whisky sales in North America appear to be a minor part of their product line, comparatively. Hence, I sort of wonder whether they CARE that these Orphans are sitting on shelves. For one thing, the stuff in those bottles was just costing them inventory taxes and expenses while it was sitting in rickhouses. At a minimum, they've got somebody else paying for letting it just sit. And every bottle sold is gravy.Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Good points Harry, we of this Board sometimes loose sight of the fact Bourbon is but a drop in Diageo's rather large bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Thanks for that, Harry. I suppose the only thing they need to worry about is the remainder of their stock sitting in inventory (wasn't it said they were sitting on a lot of old bourbon stock at SW?). If orphan sales slow to a crawl, they'll have to find another way to get them bottled, or blended.A minor problem for Diageo, to be sure. I just wonder what they will do. You know, because it's fun for me to wonder such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Based on my last couple posts - guess I should stick to financials instead of regs. Blame it on the Blanton's. Paul E's birthday made me crack my bottle.:drinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Based on my last couple posts - guess I should stick to financials instead of regs. Blame it on the Blanton's. Paul E's birthday made me crack my bottle.:drinking: Hey, we can help you with the regs. I wouldn't have had the patience to hit the financials, and that was the most fact-filled post of the night! And it's not a fair playing field. I'm stuck on a dry ship at work drinking some pretty lacklustre coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Hey, we can help you with the regs. I wouldn't have had the patience to hit the financials, and that was the most fact-filled post of the night!And it's not a fair playing field. I'm stuck on a dry ship at work drinking some pretty lacklustre coffee.I was in the Army. There's no such thing as "lackluster coffee". There's coffee that spoons stand up in, and there's water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Haha. I'm going to have to try the spoon test in a Stagg Jr when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Neat Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Haha. I'm going to have to try the spoon test in a Stagg Jr when I get home.Spoon test what is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Tot Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 See post number 113. I figure if it's a reliable army test for strong coffee, it might work for strong bourbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Oh I remember Army coffee but didn't bother with spoons . . . used a knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Oh I remember Army coffee but didn't bother with spoons . . . used a knife.And probably dulled the knife in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Then strop the knife on your boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heatmiser Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I tried Barterhouse or the fist time a few weeks ago at a friends house and thought it was a very good pour. I will definitely be buying myself a bottle in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burghguy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I also tried both Barterhouse and Rhetoric at a friends house. Went out and bought 2 bottles of the Barterhouse. The Rhetoric was nice, and not as woody as I had expected, but a little too pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggity Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 I gave a bottle of Rhetoric to a buddy for his birthday. He is a casual whiskey drinker (2-3 pours a week). He has a bottle of Lot40, ER, CEHT SmB, Breckenridge, Maybe a few others. The ER (10 year) is the oldest bottle that he has in his bar, and he's never tasted anything older than 12 year (EC12)He loved the Rhetoric for the complexity and for its real sweet deep vanilla and fruity profile. He didn't pick up too much wood or spice, but he did say it was the best he's ever had (again, he is a casual bourbon drinker). What I took away from his review was, even a casual bourboner should have a bottle of aged juice on hand as an option. The casual drinker won't go through the hassle of hunting Pappy 23/20 (or what ever aged LE you enjoy searching for) JUST to have something to go to on special occasions. But the visceral enjoyment for aged whiskey is there, so what options does a guy like this have? Orphaned Barrels, a la Rhetoric. He's found a bottle he enjoys, at a price he can afford and a supply that doesn't require him to think day and night on how to secure. That's a winner in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 He's found a bottle he enjoys, at a price he can afford and a supply that doesn't require him to think day and night on how to secure. That's a winner in my book.Mine too . . . . . . . . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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