Diageo's Orphans Don't Interest Me

[bad_scientist]

Do your cats know my cats?

[squire]

My kitten likes to sleep on the closed laptop and gets grumpy when I move her to use it. She's too young to get into my Bourbon though.

[BourbonJoe]

You guys can think and say what you like, but 70 bucks ain't bad for a 20 y/o bourbon.

Joe :usflag:

[bicktrav]

The thing that bothers me about the orphan barrel releases is the way store owners talk about it. I've had multiple stores tell me how "limited" it is and how the next release is going to be double the price of Barterhouse because they are so sought after. Meanwhile every shop has multiple bottles collecting dust on the shelf. Even BevMo has tons of them. I don't know whether the store clerks' comments come about because they actually believe what they are saying or because they are just regurgitating Diageo's narrative to push product. Either way, it's strangely irritating--almost pressuring--when they start to launch into how you HAVE to buy this bottle. As far as the price is concerned, yes, $80 for a twenty year bourbon isn't bad. But just cause it's old doesn't mean it's good.

[Restaurant man]

Everybody is asking them for limited bottles that they do not have. They have been told this is a limited bottle. They have it. They are baffled that you don't want it.

[DaveOfAtl]

As far as the price is concerned, yes, $80 for a twenty year bourbon isn't bad. But just cause it's old doesn't mean it's good.

True, but as far as I'm concerned, this one is quite good. It has a nice toasty profile and isn't over oaked like so many other bourbons it's age or younger.

[joboyd]

I love Barterhouse and think it's a steal at $80. Have yet to try OB or Rhetoric. What I care about isn't the marketing, the packaging, the inane level of bottle detailing, but rather, what I taste. And for the money, I think Barterhouse is a solid value these days.

[TunnelTiger]

Agree with that, love me some Barterhouse.

If this had been from a craft NDP it would MSRP @ $150.00

[ModernThirst]

I think there's a littel cath-22 with Diageo and the OBP. On one hand, barrels stored for 20+ years have a cost associated with them. They've taken up starage space for a looong time, and been on that company'sbooks forever. They've lost a good deal to the Angels' Share as well. So 20 year old bourbon has to cost a pretty penny, particularly when new labels and a whole lineup has to be launched and marketed. The problem is that, in my opinion, these bourbons costing a a pretty penny are good bourbons...but they're not great bourbons. So that leaves a quandry...it's good bourbon, so people like to drink it and want to try it, but without the "20 years old" age statement, I feel that the flavor profile doesn't warrant $80, as it costs around here.

If it was a $55 bourbon, it would be in huge demand. At $80, it's a purchase that most people will only make if they know they're getting something really special. hence, it isn't always flying off the shelves.

[PaulO]

The thing that bothers me about the orphan barrel releases is the way store owners talk about it. I've had multiple stores tell me how "limited" it is and how the next release is going to be double the price of Barterhouse because they are so sought after. Meanwhile every shop has multiple bottles collecting dust on the shelf. Even BevMo has tons of them. I don't know whether the store clerks' comments come about because they actually believe what they are saying or because they are just regurgitating Diageo's narrative to push product. Either way, it's strangely irritating--almost pressuring--when they start to launch into how you HAVE to buy this bottle. As far as the price is concerned, yes, $80 for a twenty year bourbon isn't bad. But just cause it's old doesn't mean it's good.

[bicktrav]

Ha! Yeah, the irony is that the very few stores that have ETL or ECBP in stock have never mentioned Barterhouse to me.

[zillah]

I too was irked by the marketing of the bottle, but since we know the provenance (it certainly is interesting) and it has been received well, a $70 20 year old Bourbon is a no brain-er.

[jburlowski]

As for me current Jeff rye just isn't worth the price. In fact I wouldn't buy it at half the price.

Mucho bottles on the shelves at much lower prices and better taste. Again that's just me.

Isn't the current release Jeff rye from MGPI/LDI?

[PaulO]

Isn't the current release Jeff rye from MGPI/LDI?

I think it's one of those labels that doesn't list state of origin.

[squire]

Yeah, that got left off somehow, the only thing we're sure of is Jefferson didn't make it. MGP does seem the likely candidate.

[cowdery]

With regard to what store people say, anyone on this board should have learned by now that half of the people working in liquor stores don't know anything and the other half are liars. I know that's an exaggeration and there are some very, very good people who work in liquor stores, many of whom participate here, all of whom probably agree with that harsh assessment about most of their colleagues.

As for Jefferson's, plenty of people are skeptical about Jeffersons. WhistlePig is another example. The difference is that both of them are tiny compared to Diageo. Diageo is the biggest drinks company in the world. They are the big dick swingers. What they do matters a lot more than what Castle (Jefferson's) or WhistlePig does.

[T Comp]

The current Jefferson's Reserve Very Old Very small batch bourbon states distilled in Indiana.

[squire]

Bet drinking that makes you feel very special.

[dcbt]

The current Jefferson's Reserve Very Old Very small batch bourbon states distilled in Indiana.

if only they were so upfront with JPS21 and above...

[kjbeggs]

With regard to what store people say, anyone on this board should have learned by now that half of the people working in liquor stores don't know anything and the other half are liars. I know that's an exaggeration and there are some very, very good people who work in liquor stores, many of whom participate here, all of whom probably agree with that harsh assessment about most of their colleagues.

As for Jefferson's, plenty of people are skeptical about Jeffersons. WhistlePig is another example. The difference is that both of them are tiny compared to Diageo. Diageo is the biggest drinks company in the world. They are the big dick swingers. What they do matters a lot more than what Castle (Jefferson's) or WhistlePig does.

Yes, there are some very good folks who run/work in liquor stores. I had a great experience just the other day on the phone. a chain store within an hour of me showed some surplus of AAA 10 year handles (which I didn't think was ever sold in TX). The first call i made, I was told that yes, they did have 22 bottles of AAA 10 year. On Monday, I called back, just to confirm. The guy I spoke to said "Look, I know AAA is kind of confusing with their names, so let me grab a bottle and tell you exactly what it says before you drive out here". (Turns out it was AAA 10-Star, as I suspected).

Of course, for every informed/helpful guy like that I run into, there are five others who either don't know the answers, so they lie, or they just want to make a sale, so they lie. (Lie to me, and I'll leave empty-handed. Be honest with me, and i'll usually find something else to tide me over until you have what I'm really looking for.

[squire]

When I'm treated that way at a store I'm tempted to tell them you can shear a sheep often but skin him only once.

[jvd99]

Binny's has OB and Barterhouse on sale for $69.99 and $139.99 respectively. This is Binny's folks, where nothing of interest in the whisk(e)y department is ever on sale - especially bourbons that are considered premium. They must have a ton of this stuff that's not moving. I guess the orphan barrels don't interest the general public as well.

[garbanzobean]

I'm pretty sure the orphan barrel bottle number "highest seen" is up over 90k at this point. Cha brah, super limited.

I've tried Blowhard and Barterhouse (see other thread), and thought they were both pretty good. I did buy a bottle of barterhouse on sale. My enjoyment rating wasn't nearly high enough to justify purchasing rhetoric or blowhard though. I would be cautiously open to purchasing new items in the series. Probably not without trying first.

[kjbeggs]

Finally did my 3-way tasting last night.

Started with Old Blowhard- Had a nice woodiness to it, but not a lot of interesting flavors to pick out underneath. It didn't seem like a pure oak-bomb to me though. something that would go well with a cigar on a cold evening.

Next, we moved to Barterhouse- Surprisingly sweet. This came off to me as a nice neat sipper. Less wood than I'd expect in a 20YO. More fruitiness than OBH. Not overly complex, but nice.

Finished up with Rhetoric- Peppery burn the moment it hit my lips. The burn died off pretty quickly though, leaving a sweetness comparable to Barterhouse. Left an aftertaste of pure alcohol, and my lips felt numb.

I enjoyed all three of these bottles, though I don't think I'd go to great lengths to hunt for them (if that was ever necessary). I liked Barterhouse the best, but my two co-tasters preferred Rhetoric.

These were all opened for the first time just minutes before tasting, so I'll have to revisit in a few weeks.

[nd2005]

So I picked up a bottle of Barterhouse this week that my local store had just gotten in stock.

Bottle # is in the 200s.

The ones I'd seen previously had numbers in the multiple thousands.

Fluke?

Or did they restart the numbering due to people complaining about seeing bottle # 80000 of a "limited" release?

Or should I put my tin hat away?