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lcpfratn

Weller price increase

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smokinjoe

Though many here may choose the Weller over BT to come back first, it would unconscionable for them to continue to be short on their namesake brand.  If running at full capacity and oversold, they simply MUST cover their core brand.  

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fishnbowljoe

FWIW, I was out and about early this morning. Naturally I stooped at a few stores. While ER wasn't to be found, every store I visited had plenty of BT. In one instance, multiple cases of 750's and handles, plus a shelf full of both. Handles were $44.99. and the 750's were on sale for $21.99. 

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lcpfratn
Perfect opportunity for an illustration:
 
1. Do you care that you can't get BT or ER in those markets?
2. If you could choose one to come back first, would it be BT/ER or OWA?

I don’t have to make that choice in Western TN, but I know people in other parts of TN, Alabama, etc. that do lament the inability to get BT or ER when they want it just like Weller. To be honest, I like all of their mashbills equally, but mashbill #2 (except for Blanton’s) has actually become the hardest to find in my area.

I can find Weller Special Reserve at retail any day of the week. OWA is only released once a year in our market, but if you watch for the release, most folks can usually get a few bottles at retail every year. W12 is a harder find, but I still manage to find a few every year because of the relationships I’ve established over time.

Blanton’s used to be as readily available as WSR in our market until a year ago, but now it’s even a bit harder to find, but still obtainable if you watch for the periodic releases. The other mashbill #2 products are much harder to get, as they are in most markets. You’ll have to pay premium retail, win a lottery purchase or have good store relationships to get anything other than Blanton’s.

So, to answer your question, I’m indifferent to choosing one mashbill over another...I want them to increase production on all of their mashbills!
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The Black Tot

Fair enough to all the above.

 

I'm not sure that missing from shelves in a few markets is oversold.

 

I've never seen an empty BT shelf personally. And for those who have, I doubt the LS owner had a problem putting in his order for replenishment. In more stores I see what Joe described above.

 

Eagle Rare is certainly arguably living up to its name. Can't personally say that bothers me as it's not a profile that works for me at 10 years of age or below.

 

I'm not sure about the namesake brand concern. Weller is a very important historic brand, too. Making the choice to distill it 8% of the time is a decision to starve it into near extinction, which is far from where the BT namesake brand is. Surely there was a better target balance point. 

 

When you go on a tour at BT it's like they don't even want to tell you they make Weller. But Pappy mania brought a lot of those bourbon fans to the distillery in the first place.

 

Oh well. Like I say, if BT doesn't want to prioritize it, someone else will make another great wheater soon enough for those of us who love Weller but don't like Maker's or Larceny. And probably for 50 bucks, too. The $25 800lb gorilla just left the room.

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smokinjoe

They’re oversold as a distillery.   They simply can’t make everything they want in the quantities the need.  So, they have to choose.  All of their products are on allocation.  In that the Buffalo Trace label is now available somewhat more readily (as compared to a couple years ago when it was missing in several regions for extended periods) is testament to the “success” of their prioritizing of the label.  “Weller can wait”, is a good strategy IMO, when the name of your company is Buffalo Trace.  

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The Black Tot
8 minutes ago, smokinjoe said:

“Weller can wait”, is a good strategy IMO, when the name of your company is Buffalo Trace.  

In that case I wish they had kept their name the George T Stagg distillery ;)

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smokinjoe
15 minutes ago, The Black Tot said:

In that case I wish they had kept their name the George T Stagg distillery ;)

Indeed!  :D

 

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mosugoji64
4 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

“Weller can wait”, is a good strategy IMO, when the name of your company is Buffalo Trace.  

 

Weller can wait, but how long will customers? I think Paul makes a good point that the time is right for someone else to step in and fill the void. As a self-identified member of the Weller Whore community, the lack of availability has been something I was prepared to ride out. Now, however, I'm increasingly frustrated by the shelf-clearing by rubes who are only interested in the brand because someone told them it was "Poor-Man's Pappy." Availability to retailers may increase, but until the fascination with trunk shots of that case they just scored decreases, there won't be enough to go around. Again, prime time for someone else to fill the void with a quality, wheated bourbon.

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smokinjoe
16 minutes ago, mosugoji64 said:

 

Weller can wait, but how long will customers? I think Paul makes a good point that the time is right for someone else to step in and fill the void. As a self-identified member of the Weller Whore community, the lack of availability has been something I was prepared to ride out. Now, however, I'm increasingly frustrated by the shelf-clearing by rubes who are only interested in the brand because someone told them it was "Poor-Man's Pappy." Availability to retailers may increase, but until the fascination with trunk shots of that case they just scored decreases, there won't be enough to go around. Again, prime time for someone else to fill the void with a quality, wheated bourbon.

I agree, but BT did about the only thing they could to try and stop the hoarding (and even that might not do it) by raising the price not so insignificantly.  If another is to step up, they will have to go where no one has been able to go in 80 years since S-W and now BT produces the best of the wheated bourbon.  For my tastes, Antique has a singular profile that not even its brothers SR (watery and short) and 12 (sooty and astringent) can match.  Maker’s and Larceny share a sweetish, dryer wheated profile that I do enjoy regularly, but that is in contrast to the thick, syrupy, brown sugar with spice fullness of Antique.  This is not easy to duplicate, lest it have been done by now.   If I were to bet on one, though, it would be HH.  The recent aged Old Fitz Bottles have been very good, and carry similar traits to WA, but they are pricy.  The desire to step up at <$30 is less than incentivizing.  

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BigRich
 
Weller can wait, but how long will customers? I think Paul makes a good point that the time is right for someone else to step in and fill the void. As a self-identified member of the Weller Whore community, the lack of availability has been something I was prepared to ride out. Now, however, I'm increasingly frustrated by the shelf-clearing by rubes who are only interested in the brand because someone told them it was "Poor-Man's Pappy." Availability to retailers may increase, but until the fascination with trunk shots of that case they just scored decreases, there won't be enough to go around. Again, prime time for someone else to fill the void with a quality, wheated bourbon.

So...fewer douchey drinkers then? Yeah, we’ve all been waiting in that for a while.
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mosugoji64
1 hour ago, smokinjoe said:

I agree, but BT did about the only thing they could to try and stop the hoarding (and even that might not do it) by raising the price not so insignificantly.  If another is to step up, they will have to go where no one has been able to go in 80 years since S-W and now BT produces the best of the wheated bourbon.  For my tastes, Antique has a singular profile that not even its brothers SR (watery and short) and 12 (sooty and astringent) can match.  Maker’s and Larceny share a sweetish, dryer wheated profile that I do enjoy regularly, but that is in contrast to the thick, syrupy, brown sugar with spice fullness of Antique.  This is not easy to duplicate, lest it have been done by now.   If I were to bet on one, though, it would be HH.  The recent aged Old Fitz Bottles have been very good, and carry similar traits to WA, but they are pricy.  The desire to step up at <$30 is less than incentivizing.  

 

I'm interested to see how the price increase will affect sales, but not happy about the change. While there may not be much incentive to make a <$30 product, that's the void left by OWA. As much as I love it, it's not a $50 bottle. The HH wheat profile is great but too different to replace OWA. MM is the same for me. I like the Private Selects I've had quite a lot, but it's WAY more than $30. Has anyone tried Redemption Wheated recently?

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mosugoji64
1 hour ago, BigRich said:


So...fewer douchey drinkers then? Yeah, we’ve all been waiting in that for a while.

 

LOL! Not much we can do about that but hope they move on to something else.

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PaulO

I don't think there is a copyright on 7 years old, 107 proof?

HH and MM should bottle some as such.

It would be very interesting.

As they are, regular MM and Larceny are good, but not great.  Both better than WSR in my opinion.

 

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BMartin42

I’m certainly out at the new price point. Just too much else I enjoy for less.

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The Black Tot

I don't buy any other $50 5-6 yr old bourbons.

 

Not planning on starting now.

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The Black Tot
7 hours ago, smokinjoe said:

 If another is to step up, they will have to go where no one has been able to go in 80 years since S-W and now BT produces the best of the wheated bourbon. 

True, but those other competitors didn't have the yeast engineering technologies or climate/process controls we have now.

 

I think if Ms Eames or Mr Rutledge has a go, there could well be a new king of wheaters. We're also still waiting to see how Mr Kulsveen's is working out.

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fishnbowljoe

FWIW, I paid $29.99 for the OWA that I bought yesterday. :D

 

Also, and FWIW, I don’t think things are gonna be quite as bad as we’re making them out to be. IMHO, they ususally aren’t. Every time a distillery makes a change, e.g., proof, price, age, availability etc... all the doom & gloomers, and nay sayers commence to bashing. It never fails, and yes I’ve done it too. It also doesn’t seem to  matter which distillery it is. We’ll sing the praises of a distillery one day, then curse them and throw them under the bus the next. Then, after a little time goes by and things seem to get back on a more even keel, we’ll start singing their praises again. Wash, rinse, repeat. <_<  I’ve been doing this bourbon “thang” for nigh on 12 or 13 years now, and one of the only constants in the game seems to be change. We should be used to it by now. Maybe we (myself included) could back off a little and take more of a wait and see attitude before we commence to trashing a distillery. 

 

And another thing... Many folks here have their own sources of information, again, myself included. It seems that even though information more than likely originates from only one source, there are times when it appears that info seems to get misconstrued as it is disseminated through other sources or different channels. Just sayin’.

 

Biba! Joe

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smokinjoe
7 hours ago, The Black Tot said:

...yeast engineering technologies or climate/process controls...

 

Damn Barry White, quit with all the sexy talk!  

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lcpfratn
  I'm interested to see how the price increase will affect sales, but not happy about the change. While there may not be much incentive to make a OWA. As much as I love it, it's not a $50 bottle. The HH wheat profile is great but too different to replace OWA. MM is the same for me. I like the Private Selects I've had quite a lot, but it's WAY more than $30. Has anyone tried Redemption Wheated recently? 

 

OWA had pretty much crept up to the $30 price point or a bit higher in most stores in my area before the price increase, so it wasn’t really a less than $30 product anymore anyway for me. Having said that, I’m out at the new price too.

 

The new price point didn’t slow down the buying of the barrel picks that hit my area during the middle of last month. They were all gone within a day or two at $49.99. Only time will tell whether or not availability will improve or whether a competitor will be successful in filling the void at a lower price point. In the mean time, I’ll be drinking from my stash.

 

 

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The Black Tot
2 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

We’ll sing the praises of a distillery one day, then curse them and throw them under the bus the next. Then, after a little time goes by and things seem to get back on a more even keel, we’ll start singing their praises again. Wash, rinse, repeat. <_< 

"You always hurt the one you love..."

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Vosgar
9 hours ago, fishnbowljoe said:

I don’t think things are gonna be quite as bad as we’re making them out to be.

 

Maybe we (myself included) could back off a little and take more of a wait and see attitude before we commence to trashing a distillery. 

Perhaps a whore in denial?  :D

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PaulO

The Sazerac Company has a number of great products.

Some have been having major availability and price issues.

Many SBers have observed the situation.  We've been waiting a long time.

Trashing a distillery would be if someone said they make garbage.  I haven't heard that here. 

It's a little sad to think BT may never "catch up" or prices will be what they will be, but I've made my peace.   

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Jazz June

Here in Northern Virginia, the only bourbons made at Buffalo Trace that don't experience availability issues are Benchmark, AA, AAA 10 Star, and Old Taylor. Eagle Rare used to be consistently available, but that seems to be coming to an end. Everything else, to include regular Buffalo Trace bourbon, will at best be available for a period and then disappear for weeks or months. People get in line before store open for ETL now. Stagg Jr sells out in less than a week, each of its two releases per year. CEHT SmB has been vacillating between being a lottery item and showing up on shelves unannounced where it sells out in a few days.

 

Weller SR is a lottery item here! I hear people asking ABC employees for Weller on a fairly regular basis. I doubt OWA will sit on shelves for $50 any time soon. There are a few places in DC where it sits, but that's at $100+.

 

I also agree with prior comments that Buffalo Trace probably feels obligated to work on Buffalo Trace availability before the rest of the products. Given the Age International situation, I'm pretty sure it is going to be a long time before mash bill #2 single barrel stuff is regularly available, so it could be worse Weller fans. Sazerac rye is hard to come by, so the rye situation isn't any better.

 

I think the increase makes sense, even if I don't like it. I like OWA a lot, but at $50 you get some strong competition. The Weller 12 price at $35 is dumb, it easily commands a much higher price than that. Not that it matters to me because it will never be on a shelf.

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Limegoldconvertible68

All I can say is David Nicholson 1843 is going to be my go to wheater from now on. That’s saying something since I got PO’ed at them over the whole Bottled In Bond fiasco. But I do like their flavor profile and for less than $20 a bottle I will gladly let others fight over the newly priced Wellers.  If Luxco has any brains they are running wheat recipes 24/7 at there new distillery. I love what they did with Rebel Yell 10 and hope they age state DN again at some point in the future. 

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elmossle
On 1/11/2019 at 12:35 PM, The Black Tot said:

Fair enough to all the above.

 

I'm not sure that missing from shelves in a few markets is oversold.

 

I've never seen an empty BT shelf personally. And for those who have, I doubt the LS owner had a problem putting in his order for replenishment. In more stores I see what Joe described above.

 

Eagle Rare is certainly arguably living up to its name. Can't personally say that bothers me as it's not a profile that works for me at 10 years of age or below.

 

I'm not sure about the namesake brand concern. Weller is a very important historic brand, too. Making the choice to distill it 8% of the time is a decision to starve it into near extinction, which is far from where the BT namesake brand is. Surely there was a better target balance point. 

 

When you go on a tour at BT it's like they don't even want to tell you they make Weller. But Pappy mania brought a lot of those bourbon fans to the distillery in the first place.

 

Oh well. Like I say, if BT doesn't want to prioritize it, someone else will make another great wheater soon enough for those of us who love Weller but don't like Maker's or Larceny. And probably for 50 bucks, too. The $25 800lb gorilla just left the room.

When we lived in NC, the local ABC Managers would always make a big deal about their allocation of regular BT and ER showing up. 2 years ago, depending on the size of your board, most boards would get 1 case of BT/ER/Blantons A QUARTER! After you sold that allotment, it was another 3 months before you were getting anymore sent your way from the state warehouse. It is my understanding that the ropes on ER are not as tight these days, but BT and Blantons are still in the same boat. I would laugh when they asked me if I wanted them to hold a bottle when it came in. I would always say no, I can go back home to KY and trip over it in stores.

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