4R Small Batch Select

[elmossle]

On 2/6/2019 at 9:50 PM, flahute said:

It will all the Vs Ks and Fs so it should be different. 

 

If it has OBSK in it, I'm in for sure!! Who are we kidding, I was in no matter what!!

[CUfan99]

13 hours ago, flahute said:

Does cask strength PS single barrels from 4R even have a profile you can name? They have 10 different recipes so I'm not sure what you mean. The cask strength PS do tend to be older than the standard single barrel so they aren't going to match that.

Given the new blend of 6 recipes it has a chance to be something unique for them.

I can’t name their profile but I taste it. The different recipes vary a lot but there’s a baseline profile underneath them that’s common to my palate, and I really dig it. Strangely, the 4 yr CS New Riff bottle I have has it. Maybe I should  work on IDing it this weekend for science. 

[Mako254]

6 hours ago, CUfan99 said:

I can’t name their profile but I taste it. The different recipes vary a lot but there’s a baseline profile underneath them that’s common to my palate, and I really dig it. Strangely, the 4 yr CS New Riff bottle I have has it. Maybe I should  work on IDing it this weekend for science. 

 

New Riff is 30% rye.

 

Among my bourbon friends (both local and on the ‘net) people that prefer 4R, WT, and MGP tend to like New Riff.  Fwiw. 

[flahute]

7 hours ago, CUfan99 said:

I can’t name their profile but I taste it. The different recipes vary a lot but there’s a baseline profile underneath them that’s common to my palate, and I really dig it. Strangely, the 4 yr CS New Riff bottle I have has it. Maybe I should  work on IDing it this weekend for science. 

I think I know what you are talking about.

When Jim took over at 4R he spent a lot of time changing the processes including the grains used, how they were cooked, how they were fermented, how it was distilled. He even changed the composition of the still. I think all of that combined results in the baseline profile you mention. After I thought about your comment more I realized that I taste it as well. I can almost always pick out 4R in double blind tastings which is partly due to the high rye but is also because of that common DNA.

[mbroo5880i]

Even at $55-60 for a 6-7 year old straight bourbon blend,  given the FR vintage, blend of multiple recipes, higher proof and NCF, this should be well received by bourbon enthusiasts.

[Richnimrod]

9 minutes ago, mbroo5880i said:

Even at $55-60 for a 6-7 year old straight bourbon blend,  given the FR vintage, blend of multiple recipes, higher proof and NCF, this should be well received by bourbon enthusiasts.

I'm expecting to like it well enough to be a buyer.   The higher proof is great, and being Non-Chill Filtered cinches it.

[Harry in WashDC]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:47 PM, Clueby said:

The tasting notes sound nice. I hope it tastes nothing like regular small batch as that is the one in their lineup I can't stand. It tastes like old, wet, dirty leaves..not that I know what that actually tastes like!

I know what that tastes like - I'm Ranger-trained.  Buy some Old Ezra 101 7yr if you can find it and drink from the bottle.  It's my favorite thing to keep at hand during Fall yard clean-up.  Plus, my breath smells just like my clothes at the end of the day.  Or, so I've been told.  That said, I sure wish the 4R SmB Select was going to be easily available here. 

[Richnimrod]

10 hours ago, Harry in WashDC said:

 That said, I sure wish the 4R SmB Select was going to be easily available here. 

It possibly will become 'easily available' in your area Harry.    ...Just not during initial roll-out of the new brand. 

Apparently only 4-or 5-states will get it initially, followed (according to their grand plan) by more expansive distribution in later months and years.   I would expect broad distribution in markets populated by the 3-other regular 4-R brands within a year or two (just my own prediction).    Kentucky (of course) will be among the first to see it.   C'mon down to Bardstown the last weekend in April, grab a bottle, and visit with the rest of us at the GN!

[Mako254]

19 hours ago, flahute said:

I think I know what you are talking about.

When Jim took over at 4R he spent a lot of time changing the processes including the grains used, how they were cooked, how they were fermented, how it was distilled. He even changed the composition of the still. I think all of that combined results in the baseline profile you mention. After I thought about your comment more I realized that I taste it as well. I can almost always pick out 4R in double blind tastings which is partly due to the high rye but is also because of that common DNA.

 

You nailed it. DNA is the phrase I use.  Now, I have had my ass handed to me in Four Roses blinds trying to nail down the different recipes but they all have a distinctive skeleton or signature or whatever you want to call it. Veriations on a theme almost. 

[CUfan99]

20 hours ago, flahute said:

I think I know what you are talking about.

When Jim took over at 4R he spent a lot of time changing the processes including the grains used, how they were cooked, how they were fermented, how it was distilled. He even changed the composition of the still. I think all of that combined results in the baseline profile you mention. After I thought about your comment more I realized that I taste it as well. I can almost always pick out 4R in double blind tastings which is partly due to the high rye but is also because of that common DNA.

 

1 hour ago, Mako254 said:

 

You nailed it. DNA is the phrase I use.  Now, I have had my ass handed to me in Four Roses blinds trying to nail down the different recipes but they all have a distinctive skeleton or signature or whatever you want to call it. Veriations on a theme almost. 

Yes! And I think the resemblance with New Riff is more than just the high rye similarity. I would guess there is something(s) like flahute mentioned there. OGD, non-4R Bulliet and other high rye bourbons don’t have it.  

[Kepler]

On 2/7/2019 at 12:33 AM, flahute said:

I taste nothing but wet cardboard in that which is indicative of young whiskey. I'd be surprised if it's a month over 4 years old.

I don't really understand the taste of wet cardboard.  Maybe I need to conduct a science experiment with some Amazon throwaways

[Kane]

On 2/9/2019 at 5:58 PM, Kepler said:

I don't really understand the taste of wet cardboard.  Maybe I need to conduct a science experiment with some Amazon throwaways

Smell wet cardboard, that's where it's at.

[fishnbowljoe]

10 minutes ago, Kane said:

Smell wet cardboard, that's where it's at.

Or the boxes in your grandma’s basement that held all the toys and games you, your siblings and cousins played with when you were kids.  

 

Biba! Joe

[flahute]

16 minutes ago, fishnbowljoe said:

Or the boxes in your grandma’s basement that held all the toys and games you, your siblings and cousins played with when you were kids.  

 

Biba! Joe

Now we're talking!

[Kepler]

On 2/10/2019 at 8:40 PM, Kane said:

Smell wet cardboard, that's where it's at.

 

I know that smell but I've never tasted bourbon that was anywhere near that.  Individual taste buds are a mysterious thing...

[flahute]

11 minutes ago, Kepler said:

 

I know that smell but I've never tasted bourbon that was anywhere near that.  Individual taste buds are a mysterious thing...

If I had any of that noxious BS left I'd send it all to you for verification. 

[Kepler]

8 minutes ago, flahute said:

If I had any of that noxious BS left I'd send it all to you for verification. 

Ahh, thanks for not having any left.  :- )

[thornsbreak]

On 2/8/2019 at 5:31 AM, CUfan99 said:

I can’t name their profile but I taste it. The different recipes vary a lot but there’s a baseline profile underneath them that’s common to my palate, and I really dig it. Strangely, the 4 yr CS New Riff bottle I have has it. Maybe I should  work on IDing it this weekend for science. 

I completely agree that there is an unmistakable 4R taste profile, almost no matter the recipe or proof, and I too have been able to identify their whiskeys in blind tastings of 6 whiskeys at a time, multiple times, including various ryes and bourbons.  Though I'm speaking mostly of their standard expressions, and have less experience with the individual recipes.

 

Here's my summary of what I usually experience in 4R: not a very fruity whiskey.  more old fashioned candy.  The big three flavors that are always there for me are Valentine's Day conversation hearts, cinnamon red hots, and white mentos/white tic tacs.  I find 4R to be just about the mintiest of all bourbons.  Other background notes include sweet dark cherry and cumin.  4RSB skews more towards the cherry than most of their line.  Yellow label is the thinnest, and has more simple syrup sweetness, and more cumin than most.  The first 3 flavors I list of old fashioned candy come through as the main focus of 4RSmB. 

 

I've had one or two of the limited editions at a bar, and I've had one or two bottles of the cask strength private selections or whatever they're called.  In my experience, despite the wide variety of recipes and yeast options, Four Roses is one of the most consistent and recognizable portfolios out there... I'm almost shocked at how similar they all taste, for having so many different yeasts and grain bill combos.  There are definitely different degrees of quality and intensity and emphasis, but they all share very similar DNA, in my opinion.  Though I think that's basically true for most bourbon distilleries, and I'd bet money that I could pick out a whiskey from Jim Beam, Heaven Hill, Old Forester/Woodford, Dickel, and Buffalo Trace in a blind tasting.  I'm not so good with Barton, Maker's Mark, and all the others yet, but I really think each of these distillieries has a unique house character:

 

Buffalo Trace = very sweet and smooth, syrupy, grape koolaid, apricot, bit of cinnamon, necco wafer

Heaven Hill = wedding cake, vanilla buttercream frosting, mint, some crushed peanut in younger expressions

Old Forester = Hefeweizen banana, strong cherry, solvent

Dickel = Flintstones chewable multivitamin (blech)

Jim Beam = crushed peanut, eucalyptus/menthol, wild yeast funk like Brett beers... my least favorite profile, though aged expressions mellow nicely

Four Roses = conversation hearts, cinnamon red hots, white mentos

 

The more age the bourbon has, the less clearly these house characters shine through, and the more you get oak-driven maple/baking spice/dark fruit, so age tends to mellow and even things out, but even then, the house traits are often perceptible.

 

While I'm a huge Four Roses fan, given that so many of their products do taste so similar, I'm a little lukewarm about a new expression at roughly the same age and proof as expressions already out there, but a higher price point.  Cha-ching!  I'll try it, but I don't expect a night and day difference from FRSB, or what I consider to be the best value, the FRSmB.

[berto]

Local listed it as coming soon for $60.  That's a tough purchase for me to make but I'll probably do it.

[kevinbrink]

5 minutes ago, berto said:

Local listed it as coming soon for $60.  That's a tough purchase for me to make but I'll probably do it.

If that is the CA price I'm not looking forward to knowing the NY price. 

[berto]

2 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

If that is the CA price I'm not looking forward to knowing the NY price. 

Yep, from a well known shop that doesn't really overcharge.  

[HoustonNit]

If that is the CA price I'm not looking forward to knowing the NY price. 

Well darn, guess this will be an easy pass.

[kevinbrink]

9 hours ago, HoustonNit said:

 

Well darn, guess this will be an easy pass.

 

It explains the fact that barrel strength single barrels are going up to $80, I'll still pick one up I'm sure.

[fosmith]

18 hours ago, berto said:

Yep, from a well known shop that doesn't really overcharge.  

Does the store's name start with an "L"? 

[HoustonNit]

It explains the fact that barrel strength single barrels are going up to $80, I'll still pick one up I'm sure.

My recent pickups of the bs SB has been in the low $60s range. I like them because they are unique pours but it’s been a while since I had a great one. I won’t be picking these up either if there now going for $80.