4R Small Batch Select

[kevinbrink]

24 minutes ago, HoustonNit said:

 

My recent pickups of the bs SB has been in the low $60s range. I like them because they are unique pours but it’s been a while since I had a great one. I won’t be picking these up either if there now going for $80.

 

The price will certainly curtail my buying a bit but I can't say I won't be picking them up. If I'm willing to spend $100 on something like Handy which I like considerably less and is younger it seems silly for me to complain abut it, not exactly the only example there either.

[berto]

4 hours ago, fosmith said:

Does the store's name start with an "L"? 

The "L" comes second.

[Kepler]

12 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

The price will certainly curtail my buying a bit but I can't say I won't be picking them up. If I'm willing to spend $100 on something like Handy which I like considerably less and is younger it seems silly for me to complain abut it, not exactly the only example there either.

 

You like Handy considerably less than a typical 4R SiB PS?  Not a rye fan I presume?  THH is one of my favorite whiskies of any category.

[EarthQuake]

1 hour ago, Kepler said:

 

You like Handy considerably less than a typical 4R SiB PS?  Not a rye fan I presume?  THH is one of my favorite whiskies of any category.

I think Handy is a pretty good rye, great perhaps, but I have to agree with Kevin, and I like ryes quite a bit. I will take most 4R SiB PS over Handy. I mean, if I see a Handy on the shelf at retail I'm gonna grab it obviously, but if we're talking about enjoying the liquid in the bottle rather than get excited about hype / allocated stuff, the 4R is likely to win in a side by side. I think 4R store picks are better than most limited edition whiskeys in any class. I would say a typical 4R pick tends to hold up very well to George T Stagg as well, I've had a couple picks that soundly beat a typical Stagg, and GTS is one of my favorites regardless of type/price/etc.

Edited March 27, 2019 by EarthQuake

[EarthQuake]

On 2/13/2019 at 11:49 AM, thornsbreak said:

I completely agree that there is an unmistakable 4R taste profile, almost no matter the recipe or proof, and I too have been able to identify their whiskeys in blind tastings of 6 whiskeys at a time, multiple times, including various ryes and bourbons.  Though I'm speaking mostly of their standard expressions, and have less experience with the individual recipes.

 

Here's my summary of what I usually experience in 4R: not a very fruity whiskey.  more old fashioned candy.  The big three flavors that are always there for me are Valentine's Day conversation hearts, cinnamon red hots, and white mentos/white tic tacs.  I find 4R to be just about the mintiest of all bourbons.  Other background notes include sweet dark cherry and cumin.  4RSB skews more towards the cherry than most of their line.  Yellow label is the thinnest, and has more simple syrup sweetness, and more cumin than most.  The first 3 flavors I list of old fashioned candy come through as the main focus of 4RSmB. 

 

I've had one or two of the limited editions at a bar, and I've had one or two bottles of the cask strength private selections or whatever they're called.  In my experience, despite the wide variety of recipes and yeast options, Four Roses is one of the most consistent and recognizable portfolios out there... I'm almost shocked at how similar they all taste, for having so many different yeasts and grain bill combos.  There are definitely different degrees of quality and intensity and emphasis, but they all share very similar DNA, in my opinion.  Though I think that's basically true for most bourbon distilleries, and I'd bet money that I could pick out a whiskey from Jim Beam, Heaven Hill, Old Forester/Woodford, Dickel, and Buffalo Trace in a blind tasting.  I'm not so good with Barton, Maker's Mark, and all the others yet, but I really think each of these distillieries has a unique house character:

 

Buffalo Trace = very sweet and smooth, syrupy, grape koolaid, apricot, bit of cinnamon, necco wafer

Heaven Hill = wedding cake, vanilla buttercream frosting, mint, some crushed peanut in younger expressions

Old Forester = Hefeweizen banana, strong cherry, solvent

Dickel = Flintstones chewable multivitamin (blech)

Jim Beam = crushed peanut, eucalyptus/menthol, wild yeast funk like Brett beers... my least favorite profile, though aged expressions mellow nicely

Four Roses = conversation hearts, cinnamon red hots, white mentos

 

The more age the bourbon has, the less clearly these house characters shine through, and the more you get oak-driven maple/baking spice/dark fruit, so age tends to mellow and even things out, but even then, the house traits are often perceptible.

 

While I'm a huge Four Roses fan, given that so many of their products do taste so similar, I'm a little lukewarm about a new expression at roughly the same age and proof as expressions already out there, but a higher price point.  Cha-ching!  I'll try it, but I don't expect a night and day difference from FRSB, or what I consider to be the best value, the FRSmB.

I agree that 4R has a very clear house style, regardless of recipe. It's quite similar to MGP's bourbons as well (Four Roses used to be produced at Seagrams aka LDI aka MGP, so there is a lot of shared history there), and of course the 4R distilled Bulleit products are in the same family. Bulleit cask strength could pass for a 4R private selection in a blind tasting.

 

That said, I think there is quite a wide variety between the difference recipes. I think I've had 7 out of the 10 so far, some of which have very classic bourbon profiles (like OESQ) and others I might confuse for rye if I didn't know any better (OBSK). They all tend to share some common notes that I really like though, spice and herbaceous qualities which are somewhat unique to 4R, and which you touched on a bit above.

 

Personally, I think the standard SB product is sort of meh and the small batch even more so. The private selections are really where it's at and are head and shoulders better than the standard releases in my opinion.

[kevinbrink]

10 hours ago, Kepler said:

 

You like Handy considerably less than a typical 4R SiB PS?  Not a rye fan I presume?  THH is one of my favorite whiskies of any category.

Nope I drink just as much Rye as bourbon and often prefer Rye, I like Handy enough that if I can buy it at retail I still grab it despite the price which to me should be about $50-$60. I am squarely in the camp that finds most BT/Sazerac bourbons to be over hyped and over rated, doesn't mean I don't like them and buy them just means I'm comfortable in the fact that I like other brands better. In preference I'd go WT > Beam/HH > 4R > MGP > BT 

[Kepler]

20 hours ago, EarthQuake said:

I think Handy is a pretty good rye, great perhaps, but I have to agree with Kevin, and I like ryes quite a bit. I will take most 4R SiB PS over Handy. I mean, if I see a Handy on the shelf at retail I'm gonna grab it obviously, but if we're talking about enjoying the liquid in the bottle rather than get excited about hype / allocated stuff, the 4R is likely to win in a side by side. I think 4R store picks are better than most limited edition whiskeys in any class. I would say a typical 4R pick tends to hold up very well to George T Stagg as well, I've had a couple picks that soundly beat a typical Stagg, and GTS is one of my favorites regardless of type/price/etc.

 

11 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

Nope I drink just as much Rye as bourbon and often prefer Rye, I like Handy enough that if I can buy it at retail I still grab it despite the price which to me should be about $50-$60. I am squarely in the camp that finds most BT/Sazerac bourbons to be over hyped and over rated, doesn't mean I don't like them and buy them just means I'm comfortable in the fact that I like other brands better. In preference I'd go WT > Beam/HH > 4R > MGP > BT 

 

I love Four Roses barrel picks too, but THH has that superior mouthfeel that puts it in another league, IMO.  I don't care about the hype of BT/Sazerac when I am considering how something tastes.  It's irrelevant.  

 

[Kepler]

11 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

 WT > Beam/HH > 4R > MGP > BT 

You're ranking distillers here.  To me, that's different than taste preferences.  Unless you prefer anything from WT over anything from the others.  WTKS > GTS ???

[kevinbrink]

1 minute ago, Kepler said:

You're ranking distillers here.  To me, that's different than taste preferences.  Unless you prefer anything from WT over anything from the others.  WTKS > GTS ???

Not exactly what I intended comparing WT KS to GTS isn't exactly the same as comparing Barrel Proof Four Roses to Handy, I will say that I like the last Single Cask Nation WT and some RR Single Barrels better than anything I've ever had from BT including GTS. It was more a general statement about how I feel about the distilleries profile recognizing full well that there are different mashbills and yeast strains at play sometimes in a singe distillery, it's not really a universal though for instance I'd probably choose Eagle Rare over RR 10 yr most days so I get your point.

[Kepler]

10 minutes ago, kevinbrink said:

Not exactly what I intended comparing WT KS to GTS isn't exactly the same as comparing Barrel Proof Four Roses to Handy, I will say that I like the last Single Cask Nation WT and some RR Single Barrels better than anything I've ever had from BT including GTS. It was more a general statement about how I feel about the distilleries profile recognizing full well that there are different mashbills and yeast strains at play sometimes in a singe distillery, it's not really a universal though for instance I'd probably choose Eagle Rare over RR 10 yr most days so I get your point.

 

I hear you and I definitely get that.  For sure, WTKS not a fair comparison to something GTS.  And to my tastes, I'll take 4R Al Young over recent vintages of GTS.  Some of my favorite bourbons are 4R LE's, and some special WT bottles.  FWIW, Wild Turkey is my favorite distiller overall.  But man, I do love me some BTAC whenever I indulge!  :- )

[afinchmustang]

Can't wait to try this one. Anyone have an idea of how long 4R releases actually take to get in the wild?

[CUfan99]

46 minutes ago, afinchmustang said:

Can't wait to try this one. Anyone have an idea of how long 4R releases actually take to get in the wild?

I saw April listed as the release date somewhere. 

[afinchmustang]

2 minutes ago, CUfan99 said:

I saw April listed as the release date somewhere. 

That's what the press release said I'm pretty sure. I'm just curious how long it takes them to really get through distribution channels

[CUfan99]

25 minutes ago, afinchmustang said:

That's what the press release said I'm pretty sure. I'm just curious how long it takes them to really get through distribution channels

I wouldn’t think this release would have a long delay since the distribution is so limited. Where are you at?

[kevinbrink]

1 hour ago, afinchmustang said:

That's what the press release said I'm pretty sure. I'm just curious how long it takes them to really get through distribution channels

Generally this tends to be market related

[afinchmustang]

4 hours ago, CUfan99 said:

I wouldn’t think this release would have a long delay since the distribution is so limited. Where are you at?

 

2 hours ago, kevinbrink said:

Generally this tends to be market related

 

I figured that was probably the case. I’m in Texas, so at least a part of the lucky few states. 

[DallasYoung]

I’ll be following this thread for updates. I’m in Florida, but driving through GA (initial release state) at the end of the month and I would love to pick one up. 

[PhantomLamb]

Looks awesome, may try to hunt some down in my Kentucky trip coming up in June.

[Mako254]

A friend of mine was at Four Roses a few days ago and it wasn’t in gift shop fwiw. 

[saltyfrost]

The price point, proof and age make this a buy-on-sight in my book. I usually skip the small batch and reach for the single barrel expression, so I'm looking forward to seeing how this tastes in comparison.

[CUfan99]

Four Roses tweeted yesterday it would be released in Kentucky 4/17 and the other states soon after. 

[afinchmustang]

5 hours ago, CUfan99 said:

Four Roses tweeted yesterday it would be released in Kentucky 4/17 and the other states soon after. 

Nice, thank you for the info. Guessing probably May until I actually see one in Texas

[PhantomLamb]

6 hours ago, CUfan99 said:

Four Roses tweeted yesterday it would be released in Kentucky 4/17 and the other states soon after. 

Good deal!  Looking forward to going hunting.

[Adam777]

I just saw some tater put one of these up for sale already. $200. I’m fine waiting until this comes to the rest of the U.S. as I don’t live in the select states it’s being released to. Anyone else come across this bottle yet?

Edited April 17, 2019 by Adam777

[Clueby]

3 hours ago, Adam777 said:

I just saw some tater put one of these up for sale already. $200. I’m fine waiting until this comes to the rest of the U.S. as I don’t live in the select states it’s being released to. Anyone else come across this bottle yet?

There was apparently a distillery release party last night about 6pm.  By 9pm they were showing up on the secondary market already! Some signed by BE and/or AY.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Clueby