Postal Grunt Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 (edited) Not everyone is in agreement over whether there will be a shortage of barrels for the ongoing bourbon boom production levels. Edited March 11, 2020 by jbutler Inserted link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mal00768 Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Nah, we can always plant more oak trees. Or maybe we’ll start seeing bourbon aged in barrels made from pine trees? Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowderKeg Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 FYI, OP's link brings up a paywall requiring login or payment to read (at least for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Dee Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I'd be more in question of the credibility of the source this is coming from. Especially since it was founded by someone in the UK, whom worked at Vanity Fair & The New Yorker. There have been articles I recall that they have since retracted as well as made public apologies based on outrageous and scandalous writings. and I'll Quote the currect EIC; "We seek out scoops, scandals, and stories about secret worlds; we love confronting bullies, bigots, and hypocrites." In 2018, Avlon described the Beast's "Strike Zone" as "politics, pop culture and power" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, Ryan Dee said: I'd be more in question of the credibility of the source this is coming from. Especially since it was founded by someone in the UK, whom worked at Vanity Fair & The New Yorker. There have been articles I recall that they have since retracted as well as made public apologies based on outrageous and scandalous writings. and I'll Quote the currect EIC; "We seek out scoops, scandals, and stories about secret worlds; we love confronting bullies, bigots, and hypocrites." In 2018, Avlon described the Beast's "Strike Zone" as "politics, pop culture and power" Though I share your skepticism of this publication, the key here is the author who is a respected writer in the alcohol industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Didn’t read the article, but this barrel shortage issue has been predicted to hit for years. Nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnbowljoe Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Clear cutting timber, for whatever purposes, is mostly a thing of the past. IIRC, trees are harvested in sections according to age. When a section is cleared, one, if not two trees are planted to keep things moving forward. Rinse, wash and repeat. Biba! Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richnimrod Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 The idea of a barrel 'shortage' has (or had) been a real thing for a while now; mainly for those small producers who don't have the suction of the "bigs" like Heaven Hill, Jim Beam, 1792/Barton or Buffalo Trace. They must pay a little (or even a lot?) more per cask, as well as possibly scrounge a bit sometimes to get adequate cooperage, especially if their output exceeds whatever predictions they've made and prepared for. I believe this has moderated over the last couple years even for them; but, I have no inside knowledge here, only what I've inferred from public statements made by such folx, even if usually indirectly. This is only one of the many reasons the crafters must charge a little extra to make their margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Dee Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 2:21 PM, flahute said: Though I share your skepticism of this publication, the key here is the author who is a respected writer in the alcohol industry. Aware, yes, but it's more in question of how much "tempering" the publication may/may not have undergone before going to print/post. If it was on his own website or blog, my skepticism would be much less and my thoughts of credibility would be much better. I appreciate the comment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 On 3/11/2020 at 1:39 PM, PowderKeg said: FYI, OP's link brings up a paywall requiring login or payment to read (at least for me). Just tried it 4:40 pm ET 12 Mar and hit no wall. The Boss may have fixed this. IIRC, we had a nice if spirited conversation about this on SB early 2015. Chuck also wrote about it on his blog, and I think Whisky Advocate also had an article touching on this - might even have been a BillB piece. Somebody (Squire?) mentioned how long it takes a white oak seedling to reach stave-worthy maturity as being in excess of 20 years and perhaps as long as 40 to get “perfect” grain. Too fast growth resulted in too wide a grain so fertilizing to speed up the time to maturity is probably not a means to more. Anybody want to go find those? I have a two hour drive coming up so can’t right now. Maybe later. Because bourbon by definition MUST be aged in new white oak, and because the boom does not yet seem to be over in spite of the best wishful thinking we can muster, I would think that persons with long-term profit horizons might, for instance, buy up some new flat former mountaintops in West Va and plant bunches of acorns. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 I think @Virtuoso hit on the key. That is rushing the trees to market. Also rushing the staves to the cooperage. Most staves are air dried for 6 top 9 months and then finished off in a kiln. Air drying is important in that it helps leach out the tannins. Less air drying and more kiln time could conceivably change the taste profile and mouth-feel of the whiskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosmith Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 16 hours ago, Harry in WashDC said: Because bourbon by definition MUST be aged in new white oak, It doesn't have to be white oak, just new, charred oak barrels. Hence the Mongolian oak and French oak expressions from Old Charter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flahute Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, fosmith said: It doesn't have to be white oak, just new, charred oak barrels. Hence the Mongolian oak and French oak expressions from Old Charter. And to be fully pedantic, it doesn’t have to be barrels, just “containers”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 45 minutes ago, fosmith said: It doesn't have to be white oak, just new, charred oak barrels. Hence the Mongolian oak and French oak expressions from Old Charter. THX. I got lazy, and it showed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeTen Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Harry in WashDC said: THX. I got lazy, and it showed. Nah, we're just gettin' OLDer and forgetfuller! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) Some previous threads on barrels. These links take you to a post in the thread, not to the be3ginning of that thread. The "white oak" thread contains some info on growing trees as a crop including the Squire comments I remembered, sort of. https://www.straightbourbon.com/community/topic/23105-wsj-article-on-barrel-shortage/?tab=comments#comment-472033 https://www.straightbourbon.com/community/topic/21298-is-the-barrel-shortage-the-reason/?tab=comments#comment-408601 https://www.straightbourbon.com/community/topic/20650-white-oak/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-385796 EDIT - ALSO, Chuck Cowdery's blog has this teaser referencing Bourbon Country Reader, Volume 16, #1: [Start quote] Sunday, April 20, 2014 Is America Running Out of Oak Trees? You know those TV news teasers that go like this: "Something you could be eating right now might kill you. Details at Eleven." Don't you hate those? Well, this is like that. During the recent fight about Tennessee whiskey standards, the barrel shortage was frequently mentioned. Is it real? If it is, how bad is it, what’s causing it, and how long will it last? If you want to know the truth about America's whiskey barrel crisis, you'll just have to subscribe to The Bourbon Country Reader. It's all in the new issue (Volume 16, Number 1) which is in the mail right now. [end quote] I can't find my hard copy of the BCR, and the text is not on line. Sorry. Edited March 13, 2020 by Harry in WashDC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry in WashDC Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, GeeTen said: Nah, we're just gettin' OLDer and forgetfuller! Remind me = Who are you? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnbowljoe Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 And the CRS Club yet again expands its membership. Biba! Ken 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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