What bourbon are you drinking now? Part deux

[cowdery]

Well, it ain't the New York Times, I'm sure we can all agree on that.

(Anyone who wants to know more about the publications Dave may have been alluding to need only click on the magic name below.)

[brian12069]

I have to throw in my 2 cents on a bottle of EC18yr SB. I have barrel #702 barreled on 3-11-82 and I gotta say, I can hardly gag this stuff down. This is my most disapointing bottle of Single Barrel ever...

I wish I could put my finger on the taste, but all I can say is DIRT... Even feels gritty going down. Plus, so much alcohol taste... No class what so ever. Makes me totally afraid to buy another bottle to see what gives?

For those who enjoy their bottling of EC18yr SB, congratulations. I got burned somehow... it's the weirdest thing I have ever tasted in a bourbon.

I gotta throw my 2 cents in too. I think both the 12 and 18 are both awful. They are probably the only bourbons I have ever tasted that I just went aghghghghghghghgh. I don't enjoy either of them.

[RedVette]

Buffalo Trace is making wheated bourbon and, as it matures, the Van Winkle line will transition to Buffalo Trace-made product.

So is it the general concensus that the Pappy's and ORVW's will taste similar if not identical to the current stuff when it is made from BT stock?

[cowdery]

So is it the general concensus that the Pappy's and ORVW's will taste similar if not identical to the current stuff when it is made from BT stock?

No way to predict until we get there. I can tell you there are some significant differences between the still at SW and the one at BT. On the other hand, Julian Van Winkle is involved in the BT project and they are expressly trying to duplicate the original Van Winkle "family recipe." Who knows, it might even be better. I'm afraid even if there is some kind of consensus it is worthless, because it is nothing but speculation founded on nothing. We gotta taste the whiskey.

I have said many times and will say again here that if you like a certain Van Winkle whiskey, buy as much of it now as you can afford, because we may never see its likes again.

[BobA]

I'm having my first taste of Bulleit. First impressions can be bad, but I'm not thinking that much of it. I like the sharpness up front, but after that it I'm getting a mediciny tast that stays a while. I'll probably switch to OGD 100, and do a real side-by-side some other night.

Bob

[TNbourbon]

I'm treating myself to a Heaven Hill trilogy of 9-10yos tonight: Evan Williams 1783 (86 proof, 10 years), Evan Williams Single Barrel 1994 (86 proof, 9+ years) and Old Heaven Hill 10yo BIB (100 proof and 10yo, of course, as the name implies), in that order.

The back-to-back Evan Williams releases confirm two things -- that the 1783 is certainly one of the best $10-or-so value bourbons out there, and that the Single Barrel is a premium version of it, with added elegance and depth. Both have the trademark HH menthol/eucalyptus-disguised alcohol, but the 1783 is more 'in-your-face', while the SB has a softer and more sophisticated presentation, with a warmer finish and less-obvious alcohol.

The BIB introduces itself with a sweeter, more maple-y nose than the EWs, but turns into a sinus-clearer, too, with time in the glass. It has more barrel flavor than the others, but passes the HH menthol-muster on the finish in spades. That finish is long and spreading, more fitting to a $50 bourbon than the $10-$12 one it is.

It's quite remarkable that Heaven Hill and the Shapiras can turn out such fine bourbon at such low (comparatively) prices, and enough to make you wonder who benefits for the 'economies of scale' that the big corporations -- Diageo, Fortune Brands, Brown-Forman -- promise (I don't really wonder too much -- it's the stockholders, not the consumers). They all make wonderful whiskey. But HH is the industry leader in putting in the consumers' hands at low cost.

[camduncan]

Ken, our bottes of Bulleit are 90 proof (45%)

[tmas]

Hi, you seem to be very knowledgeable about this ORVW, Buffalo Trace thing which I just now found out about by coming to this web site. ORVW is my favorite bourbon and so I am concerned. Has Van Winkle been taken over by BT, and does this mean that for all practical purposes Van Winkle is soon to be no more as we previously knew it? What a shame that would be, although in today's world it would be business as usual. I'd appreciate any info you have on this which would help me go out and get a bunch of different Van Winkles to squirrel away for my winter years if in fact the Van Winkle bourbons are slated for extinction. I tried a BT bourbon, although I don't recall which one, and it didn't ring my bell like the ORVWs do!

[RedVette]

Has Van Winkle been taken over by BT, and does this mean that for all practical purposes Van Winkle is soon to be no more as we previously knew it?

Julian is still the man, they just changed distilleries. It is possible/probable that the profiles will change with the BT stocks, but how much is anybodies guess. Considering how good the Van Winkle stuff has been in the past, I think it would be a good bet that the new stuff is delicious. Just a guess, but then I'm a new guy.

Tonight, Old Ezra 101 is in my glass. What a funny little Bourbon. There is something in the flavor that I find offensive, but I can't put my finger on it, and it isn't so much as to make it undrinkable. Odd stuff.

[TNbourbon]

Run a search on this site for "Van Winkle" and you'll find lots of information -- even Julian Van Winkle, the bottler, shows up and posts fairly often.

In short, Van Winkle is bottled by Julian Van Winkle (grandson of "Pappy" Van Winkle) under an arrangement he has with Buffalo Trace. In all but the current 10yo ORVW bottlings, he is still using old Stitzel-Weller bourbon. However, since that distillery stopped operating in 1992, that bourbon won't last forever. Julian is overseeing the aging of Buffalo Trace-distilled bourbon for future Van Winkle bottlings.

The ORVW 15yo is no longer being bottled, replaced by a Pappy Van Winkle Family Reserve 15yo bottling (joining the existing such 20- and 23yo Pappys). Look under tasting notes thread for comparisons.

Welcome to Straightbourbon.com. You'll find more info here about bourbon than you ever knew existed.

[tmas]

Thanks for the info & welcome, Tim. I'll do my homework and get myself a bunch of that Stitzel-Weller Van Winkle, never know what the new stuff will be like until the old stuff is just a memory!

Tom

[TNbourbon]

Since you began a discussion about things Van Winkle, I decided tonight's lineup would include some Stitzel-Weller (original Van Winkle distilery) I have open, in comparison with a newer Old Fitz -- the Old Fitzgerald 1849 distilled at Bernheim and bottled by Heaven Hill.

I have both an 80-proof Old Fitzgerald 4yo and Weller Special Reserve 7yo from the Stitzel-Weller era open, and they are most definitely the same bourbon at different ages.

The additional 3 years gives the Weller a sweeter, maple nose with much greater depth. In the glass, the color difference is pronounced with the older bourbon, of course, much closer to amber.

The 4yo's flavors are very soft on entry, while the Weller 7yo lets you know right away that this is wheated -- it reminds me of my Mom's brown-sugar fudge, lightly burned from too long over the heat without stirring.

The Bernheim-distilled 1849, on the other hand, is a bit lighter in color than the 7yo Special Reserve, despite being a year older. Instead of sweet caramel on the nose, it's lighter cotton candy, with less pungency. It has a lighter taste, like the younger S-W bottling. There are some bitters on the finish that belie the wheat, while the Weller stays sweet throughout.

Bottom line, I like them all, but can see why Stitzel-Weller wheaters developed such a reputation for quality. It is tasty, pleasant and drinkable at any age, distinctly different from rye-flavored bourbons in its sweetness, yet matching their complexity, though perhaps requiring more years in the barrel to do so.

[monte]

BrbnBorderline,

You inspired me to pour some Old Charter 12 that I hadn't had in a couple of weeks. I do like it, which surpised me a bit when I got the bottle as I'd pretty well decided I preferred high-rye mashbills and straight rye. Until tonight, I'd sort of cycled this out waiting for warmer weather, and hit some more rye in the colder weather. I think the OC 12 has a simple smoothness that shows some great nuances when I spend some more time with it.

A nice way to put it... I also like the 12 year Old Charter as well as heavy rye mashbill whiskies; somehow I don't think the two tastes are mutually exclusive

Around here, I have been searching for old dusty Louisville distilled Old Charter Proprietors Reserve bottles (the 13 year version) and I think it's even more smooth and "nuance filled" than the 12 year old, which I have only seen in KY. I'm amazed that they can get a 13 year old whiskey to taste so fresh and "bright" and still have all the smoothness and character of being extra aged. The 13 year is a little lighter and more refined than the 12, so I enjoy it much more, but this comes at a high cost difference.

Since I can't get the 12 year version up here in MA, and there seems to be a good bit of old dusty 13 year bottles lurking in stores around here, I end up drinking the 13 year a lot more often... and enjoy it a lot!

Try the 13 year if you can... Maybe it isn't worth the price difference (or maybe it's cheaper near you?), but I find it to be quite a nice whiskey, and a somewhat unique one at that. Not unrelated to the 12 year old, but a good bit more refined.

Regards,

-monte-

[bluesbassdad]

Eagle Rare SB 10 y/o.

Actually I have yet to take a sip tonight. I'm still marveling at the nose. I've said before that this is the most cognac-like bourbon I've ever tasted (and I mean that in a good way). Tonight the aroma of grapes is stronger than I remembered, so much so that it reminds me of Welch's concord grape juice.

Oh, and I selected this pour tonight because I've decided to open my lone bottle of ER 17 y/o, and I felt I should establish a baseline first. Now I think I'll put it off at least one more night.

Yours truly,

Dave Morefield

[Ken Weber]

Thanks. I have a meeting with an Australian distributor tomorrow. Perhaps BT will find its way there shortly. I will let you know.

Ken

[Ken Weber]

I have followed this thread and my fellow Straighbourbonites have pretty much answered your questions as well as I would. I will add that the Buffalo Trace Distillery produced wheated bourbon for United Distillers (they bought the old Stitzel-Weller distillery)going back nearly a dozen years. We have been making the bourbon to the same recipe as that found in Julian's bourbons. Will our 15 year old taste like the current 15 year in a few years, I honestly don't know. I know that the current 12 year old Weller and 12 year Van Winkle use pretty much the same whiskies, however, Julian has a different taste profile and his 12 year is distinctly different. As long as he keeps selecting his whiskey, I would say the quality should stay the same.

It is important to note that prior to Weller, all of our bourbons used rye as the short grain (flavoring grain). Rye contributes more of a spiciness or a peppery taste. Wheat, in my opinion, is a bit softer. Some people vastly prefer one over the other.

Ken

[camduncan]

Ken, that is fantastic news

I know it's probably one of many meetings before a deal is done, but I hope it goes well.

[cowdery]

I have little to add to what Ken Weber and others have said. If I ruled the world, Stitzel-Weller would still be producing and the Van Winkle family would still be running it. (And Brooke Burke would be my queen.) Barring that, the Van Winkle heritage is in good hands at Buffalo Trace.

[pete_d]

Go Ken,

Do it for the Antipodean Bourbon-fans...

I can't wait to see the sexy BT bottles on a shelf down here.

[jeff]

Old Bourbon Hollow. I picked up this bottle at Toddy's on Tuesday. I had never seen it before in lexington and Guthrie explained to me that it is from Jim Beam and he is the sole proprietor of it in KY. Apparently it is modeled after the classic "Old Tub" brand. It's a BIB bourbon and sold for about $11. It has a pleasant, familiar Jim Beam taste, but a little smoother and tastier than the 4yo White label. This is a nice drink on ice and would make a good mixer. If you're in Bardstown, or you see it out-of-state, give it a try.

[Gillman]

Cool. How about a pic, Jeff?

Gary

[BobA]

Monte,

I would like to try the 13, but although I look in every liquor store I enter, haven't found it so far. I'll keep looking, but I do have plenty of others. Including tonight's ORVW 10-year 107. I guess I'm forsaking rye taste a lot lately, but it seemed the proper reward for finally doing a rough-out on my taxes. When I double check it and send it in, I'll celebrate with the Sazerac.

Bob

[cowdery]

God Bless Guthrie, but I've seen Old Bourbon Hollow at Old Town in Louisville and at Liquor Barn at both Hurstbourne and Fern Valley, so I guess Beam is cheatin' on 'im.

[gr8erdane]

Last September when Toddy's was so generous as to offer SB.com members a discount, I took eight bottles of bourbon not to be found in Missouri to the counter and Guthrie rung up the total and added that one more 11 dollar bottle would get me the extra discount. When I asked him for a suggestion, Old Bourbon Hollow was what he told me. According to him at that time, OBH was indeed a Beam bourbon and one that was purchased by most Beam employees. I have tasted it and while not finding it objectionable, neither have I found it particularly noteworthy. For the price, not a bad bourbon though.

You have to wonder though if his suggestion was more to move slow moving stock?

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

After a little more than a week of being unable to drink, doctor's orders, I am enjoying several bourbons tonight. I started with Olde St. Nick 8 yr 43% bourbon. I started a thread about that bourbon elsewhere. After a small pour of that, drunk slowly, I Had a bit of Old Grand Dad 114. First time to have that. Good, the rye is right there, no nonsense. Opened a bottle of Jim Beam Black too. Drinking that now.

Ed