Buffalo Trace - Experimental Collection

[ThomasH]

Now on ebay, a 3 bottle set of the experimental collection. Seller is "jakecollectibles" and starting price is 475.00. Anyone know who this guy is? It seems to me that maybe he owns a liquor store!

Thomas

[Sweetmeats]

Is there a legal reason why Buffalo Trace could not sell these themselves? Or at least start a side division to handle it?

[Pharaoh]

I do remember reading about a barrel of Glenmorangie Single Malt Scotch that was being aged in Kentucky at BT. Anyone hear how that turned out?

Ed

I'd bet you meant Glenfarclas instead of 'morangie.

[barturtle]

Yes there is a legal reason: the three tier liquor system. Manufacturer, Distributor and Retailer must all be seperate entities, under seperate ownership

[Grant]

Now on ebay, a 3 bottle set of the experimental collection. Seller is "jakecollectibles" and starting price is 475.00. Anyone know who this guy is? It seems to me that maybe he owns a liquor store!

Thomas

Only $158 per bottle! Wait - you have to pay $9.00 shipping too. What a deal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-BUFFALO-TRACE-SINGLE-BARREL-EXPERIMENTAL-COLLECTION_W0QQitemZ6278174617QQcategoryZ13916QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[TNbourbon]

I got curious today, so contacted the liquor manager for the area distributor which handles BT products directly -- and learned that Middle Tennessee got exactly ONE 12-bottle case (presumably, four of each bourbons), which went to Frugal McDoogal's, a Nashville liquor 'superstore'. A phone call to the store got me absolutely nowhere -- the person I talked to knew nothing about it, and couldn't find it in his database. Not surprising, I guess. It probably went directly to 'best customers' or the store manager's personal collection. Still, I may make a stop in there to question staff face-to-face sometime this week.

[ProofPositive]

I got curious today, so contacted the liquor manager for the area distributor which handles BT products directly -- and learned that Middle Tennessee got exactly ONE 12-bottle case (presumably, four of each bourbons), which went to Frugal McDoogal's, a Nashville liquor 'superstore'. A phone call to the store got me absolutely nowhere -- the person I talked to knew nothing about it, and couldn't find it in his database. Not surprising, I guess. It probably went directly to 'best customers' or the store manager's personal collection. Still, I may make a stop in there to question staff face-to-face sometime this week.

Very interesting. I got much the same response from the biggest retailer in Memphis today by phone. I am off work tomorrow and heading over there in the morning to talk directly to staff about it. This is the first place in town to look for just about anything coming out of BT. I got my Pappy 23 there before anyone else in town had even 1 bottle. Will check in tomorrow evening and update.

[cowdery]

Now on ebay, a 3 bottle set of the experimental collection. Seller is "jakecollectibles" and starting price is 475.00. Anyone know who this guy is? It seems to me that maybe he owns a liquor store!

Thomas

I'm not quite sure why, but it seems to me that a retail license holder just might be risking his license by trying to sell something from his inventory on eBay. For one thing, some states have maximum price regulations. So the license holder officially "sells" the valuable bottles to his brother-in-law, who puts them on eBay.

[Edward_call_me_Ed]

That sounds suspicously like what I read about on p. 140 of Waymark and Harris's Classic American Whiseys (1995), but it was being aged at Marker's Mark, who provides the bourbon barrels for Glenmorangie. At this point, that malt should be well aged (considering Kentucky climate vs, Scotland), but I haven't heard anything more about it, either.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Yep, you are right. I have the same book, but evidently I don't have as good a memory as you do.

Thanks.

Ed

[ProofPositive]

Getting nowhere fast around the Memphis area. Nobody seems to know anything about the Experimental Collection. One store clerk acted like he did and then proceeded to tell me that the BTEC is the same bourbon as the hand-picked single barrels from Buffalo Trace that he & many other retailers pick for their individual store bottlings-??? Also, he swears that all BT single barrels selected by retailers is 10 years old. I left before getting too far with him....hate to offend anyone in the business. Not a good idea to burn any bridges! Maybe like Tim, there will be at least a case available in the local area.....hopefully!

I will report back if I find anyone around here with anything close to reasonable knowledge about the EC. At this point, it seems that is a remote chance around here.....but, I have been here most of my life and am used to the slowness of mind prevalent in this town. IMHO, I think too much moonshine was consumed in this area for too many years and the gene pools got corrupted beyond repair!

[BSS]

Proof

If any store in Memphis got any, I would be very surprised if it was still at the store.

And I would cut the stores some slack. If they weren't ever told they were going to get any, and never expected to get any, I don't know how they would have really known much about it. It's not like it was some highly published release or anything. It might seem like it because people on here know about it, but that doesn't make it common knowledge, even to liquor store owners. We have owners here at decent stores within 25 miles of BT that didn't know anything about it. It wasn't ever offered to them, so they weren't really ever told about it.

[jeff]

I'll go out on a limb here and say that there probably isn't a single bottle of this stuff anywhere that's unaccounted for. I was told that the Liquor Barns here in Lexington got one case or less per store, and not a single bottle touched a shelf. I would be suprised if any of the three bottlings ever made it out onto a sales floor, anywhere.

[chasking]

I suppose offering these special bottlings is a way for BT to get rid of some of their oddball casks at a profit, but it's not going to tell them whether any of their experiments have succeeded or not: if all the bottles are snatched up as collectibles, they will be unable to tell whether people are buying their new and different whiskeys because they like them.

[NorCalBoozer]

I suppose offering these special bottlings is a way for BT to get rid of some of their oddball casks at a profit, but it's not going to tell them whether any of their experiments have succeeded or not: if all the bottles are snatched up as collectibles, they will be unable to tell whether people are buying their new and different whiskeys because they like them.

Hopefully this wasn't their intended aftermath. I love BT products but I'm not going to start paying 6x retail for a 375 ml that is already priced at over $40 suggested retail. BT has a very loyal customer base (myself included), but this was a great idea that just ended up leaving a lot of us frustrated.

If they don't control the distribution channel, I'd rather see experiments like this kept in house, do tastings and then, if they feel it's good enough, put it in a decent size production run that we actually have a shot at.

[BSS]

I thought the same thing as NorCal.

Hopefully they weren't expecting to get a true idea about how well these would be accepted by the public based on this release. If they were, they aren't as business savy as I thought.

I will assume that they intended to try it themselves to determine its quality(and if they wanted to make a production run of it), and then dump the extra on the public. I would bet that less than 50% of those bottles will ever be opened.

[jburlowski]

If they truly wanted to test market exceptance, they would have released these randomly without any advance publicity. Either the BT folks (of whom I'm a big fan) are truly inept or they are merely interested in getting a little publicity and as many bucks as possible from a noble (bur perhaps failed) experiment.

[BSS]

I wouldn't say it's failed.

The experiment may have been for the guys that work at the distillery that are in charge of creating different product lines. Public opinion may not have ever been their intended test group. They put out products all the time without a public opinion experiment. So it wouldn't be anything new if this was the case.

But if it was, then yes I would say it was a horribly designed experiment.

[cowdery]

Hindsight is always 20-20. Did BT know this offering would sell out in the blink of an eye? Of course not. You never do in business. People who make those kinds of gambles see "sure things" tank and dubious propositions soar all the time. Yes, they brought out a product and sold it at a profit (shame on them?) but they also made a statement that they are willing to try things. The purpose of the publicity wasn't to sell these 400 cases, or whatever it was, it was to let people know that BT is a leader, pushing the envelope, trying new things. Do we really want to criticize them for that?

[BourbonSteve]

well put Chuck.

[ProofPositive]

If they don't control the distribution channel, I'd rather see experiments like this kept in house, do tastings and then, if they feel it's good enough, put it in a decent size production run that we actually have a shot at.

I agree. I finally found one retailer in town today who had some limited knowledge of the BTEC.....and, he said he just learned about it yesterday from the local sales rep for BT who came by his place on his rounds. He said the rep asked him if he wanted any and if so, how much. The retailer was told by the rep that it will be available in late June or early July.....huh??? Maybe even the sales reps do not even know as much as we do. I did not bother to differ with the fellow on the expected timetable of release by telling him it had already been released. I just left my name with him - for when and if he is able to procure any of the BTEC.

Is it possible that BT is going to release more of the EC, and, in greater number sometime next month or this summer? Or, is the sales rep misinformed? Or better yet, did he misinform the retailer? (Although I can find no logical reason for that).

Ken Weber, what say ye?

[BSS]

If it means anything Proof, it seems like sales reps being misinformed is the common theme around here too.

Two stores I went to said they were told that they would be getting a case, but they were later told they wouldn't. So I don't always think those guys know what their talking about.

[jeff]

Is it possible that BT is going to release more of the EC, and, in greater number sometime next month or this summer? Or, is the sales rep misinformed? Or better yet, did he misinform the retailer? (Although I can find no logical reason for that).

Indeed BT plans to release more of the BTEC, but in different forms. We got to try the next release during the sampler weekend at the BT lab. We were told that it would be bottled sometime in August. I'll let BT comment publically on what it is.

[pepcycle]

IMHO, BT had all the info they needed when their panel finished tasting.

I think they were generous in deciding to distribute the remainder of the whiskey in a barrel.

It has to be pretty expensive to do single barrel (and I do mean only one) releases.

The price is high, but fair and I don't think they make much.

I mean, they're not establishing a market now for something they may decide to put into production, that won't be available for 16 years.

Seems to me, they could easily have put aside a gallon or two in the lab and dumped the rest with a lot less trouble. I respect that somebody there knows that folks like us would appreciate a shot of something different, whether it be good, bad or four grain.

[NorCalBoozer]

Ed, the problem I see is with the distribution channel that exists for BT products. This stuff never hit the shelves in all reality. This may not specifically be something BT's can control, although it affects its products.

So the real question for me is, ok BT is going to make some more releases of these types of items, are we ever even going to be able to see them or are the distributors and retailers going to just suck them up?

To me that is a valid criticism that us BT fans would love to see rectified for future releases. BT's only problem at this point is that their products are so sought after than even the distributors and retailers are grabbing them up.

[Rancastle]

I agree Ed! Buffalo Trace has enough taste buds on the payroll to determine if a product will be right for the market place! I would say it was generous of them to bottle these experiments rather then dump them down the drain. With the limited amount, the 375ml bottles allowed a few additional people to aquire a bottle, even if it never reached the shelf. As far as distrubution, there's no other legal way without going to the trouble of letting some one pick it as a Single Barrel, letting it go to the distributor, then picking it up at some liquor store somewhere. How many people do you piss off selling it all to a single person or group?