OWA-NAS/new label

[Josh]

Since everybody else has weighed in...I think Birdman summed my feelings up perfectly. I'm sure the juice will be fine for a while, but they wouldn't take the age statement off if they weren't going to change the age of the product in some way.

It's not a cause for panic, tho. There are plenty of great NASs, like 4R Single Barrel and WTKS. I do believe that BT wouldn't remove the age statement unless they felt like they didn't have a choice. But I think experience shows that once an age statement is gone, it doesn't come back.

Personally, I don't really care for the SR that much and I don't buy the OWA very much. So I'm not blowing a gasket. I am disappointed. The age statement and the high proof are what made OWA special and now one of those is going away.

[jimibourbonhammered]

I can understand the finite supply even though they've been able to keep up with it for at least the 25 years I've been drinking the OWA 107. I mean it's not like holding it for 12, which I believe will eventually be deferred to premium status. It seems like the bean counters have gotten involved in everything these days and quality eventually suffers. My issue is more with the bottle shape and label. Its a top heavy perfume bottle shape with a plastic label that is not well attached because of all the curves. Just a bad design on the ones I've seen. The traditional "old fashioned" parchment label just seemed like one of the last cowboys. So why not just release another NAS expression in the new upscale bottle and leave the standards alone. Asking too much? Looks like all the mid-shelfers are deliberately going away.

[unclebunk]

I spoke to someone at Buffalo Trace and I was told that 7 year old barrels are selected and dumped for both OWA and WSR. Some juice is directed to be cut to proof for OWA and the rest is cut and bottled at 90 proof for SR. It all starts as the same batch of aged juice. They also added that if the SR ever loses its age statement, then we can worry. I think that's a pretty important thought.

IIRC, WSR outsells OWA by a factor of 5 or 6 so anywhere from 75 to 90% of the dumped aged stock gets bottled as SR. If the OWA label change was really intended to extend their ability to sell wheated brands without proper stock, why mess with the lower impact, lower selling brand? It's a drop in the bucket when compared to its stable mate.

I understand that this doesn't appeal to the emotional responses and those looking for bourbon industry villains, but it looks like a case of "as goes SR so goes OWA" and SR is still age stated bourbon.

Great post, Ox. Thanks for the info. That certainly shines a new light on things. I'm going to pick up one of each today and compare them to the '08 bottles that I already have, but it's all good in my book so I'm not too worried about the changes. Aesthetically though, I much preferred the older OWA label to the new (duller) one, which I mentioned to Fishnbowl Joe over lunch at Manny's on Saturday.

[ILLfarmboy]

I've also noticed we loose either proof or age statements but usually not both, at once. So, we end up with the new under-proof ten year Eagle Rare Single Barrel, on one end and NAS Antique at the other.

I would have been happier if SR was dropped all together, the word 'antique' dropped from the new premiumized label. Or, call it something very close to Special Reserve so that the uninitiated SR consumer who didn't know that OWA and RS are the same juice just thinks SR was getting a big jump in proof in a new classier bottle, with a price increase. Which would also be a valid way to look at it, realy.

The juice could have been put in the Eagle Rare/antique collection bottles. The age could be prominently displayed on the neck, just like the ERSB. That would appeal to the SR consumers, whom we've been told view the age statement as the major selling point. A less in your face portion of the label could tout some fluff about the 107 proof.

[BBQ+Bourbon]

I am confounded about the SR customers caring about the age. Let's see; this is a $15 bourbon at low proof that competes with the likes of Evan Williams Black, Early Times, Old Taylor, Ancient Age, Jim Beam Black... all of which are completely undistinguished and in the same price range. So the advantage that SR has is that it's 7 years old?

I'm trying to picture the SR customer whose decision point is the 7 year age statement.

I think that by stretching the OWA juice to a younger date, BT gets to add so many more bottles of the cash cow.

When the 06 OWA bottles run dry, I'll probably move on.

[Josh]

I am confounded about the SR customers caring about the age. Let's see; this is a $15 bourbon at low proof that competes with the likes of Evan Williams Black, Early Times, Old Taylor, Ancient Age, Jim Beam Black... all of which are completely undistinguished and in the same price range. So the advantage that SR has is that it's 7 years old?

FYI, Michigan State Minimum:

OWA $23.96

WSR $18.97

EW $11.77

ET $9.96

OT $11.95

JBB $22.95

AA $8.49

AAA 10* $15.47

AAA 10 yr N/A

SR has two advantages. 1) it has an age statement unlike any of those others you listed and 2) It's a wheater.

90 proof is lower than many premium bourbons, but it's higher than almost anything else in that price range. Plus the only other wheater that is under $20 in Michigan is Old Fitz Prime which is a measly 80 proof, and pretty crummy.

Plus I kinda like Beam Black and Distillers Series.:grin:

[p_elliott]

FYI, Michigan State Minimum:

OWA $23.96

WSR $18.97

EW $11.77

ET $9.96

OT $11.95

JBB $22.95

AA $8.49

AAA 10* $15.47

AAA 10 yr N/A

SR has two advantages. 1) it has an age statement unlike any of those others you listed and 2) It's a wheater.

90 proof is lower than many premium bourbons, but it's higher than almost anything else in that price range. Plus the only other wheater that is under $20 in Michigan is Old Fitz Prime which is a measly 80 proof, and pretty crummy.

Plus I kinda like Beam Black and Distillers Series.:grin:

Wrong JBB is age stated at 8 yrs

[BBQ+Bourbon]

FYI, Michigan State Minimum:

OWA $23.96

WSR $18.97

EW $11.77

ET $9.96

OT $11.95

JBB $22.95

AA $8.49

AAA 10* $15.47

AAA 10 yr N/A

SR has two advantages. 1) it has an age statement unlike any of those others you listed and 2) It's a wheater.

90 proof is lower than many premium bourbons, but it's higher than almost anything else in that price range. Plus the only other wheater that is under $20 in Michigan is Old Fitz Prime which is a measly 80 proof, and pretty crummy.

Plus I kinda like Beam Black and Distillers Series.:grin:

Thanks for that information. In Missouri, the stores that have OWA @23.99 move about one bottle a decade. Going price is $20 and WSR is $16, EWB is $10, AA $10, JBB is $17 and I've not seen AAA. This in the KC and surrounding areas.

I agree that the wheater profile attracts a following but don't know if the age statement is really a closer. Is there any data to suggest that it is?

Just a gut feeling and I have no data to back up my feeling. My impression is that WSR is probably not a connisseur pour and as such, consumed by people who are looking for a tasty bottle that disappears into a coke, and is reasonably priced and for some, a brand recognition. Again, that's my impression and I have no data to back that up.

[ILLfarmboy]

Thanks for that information. In Missouri, the stores that have OWA @23.99 move about one bottle a decade. Going price is $20 and WSR is $16, EWB is $10, AA $10, JBB is $17 and I've not seen AAA. This in the KC and surrounding areas.

I agree that the wheater profile attracts a following but don't know if the age statement is really a closer. Is there any data to suggest that it is?

Just a gut feeling and I have no data to back up my feeling. My impression is that WSR is probably not a connisseur pour and as such, consumed by people who are looking for a tasty bottle that disappears into a coke, and is reasonably priced and for some, a brand recognition. Again, that's my impression and I have no data to back that up.

This brings up broader a question. I had always figured that the mid-shelf brands that, percentage wise, are smaller players, get consumed neat, percentage wise, more frequently than, say, Beam Black or at least JD. Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe when I see someone else leaving the store with a bottle of seven year OWA, its no indication he's anymore enlightened than the person leaving with a bottle of JD.

I'd have to admit, given otherwise identical choices, and unless the NAS bottling was part of a special barrel purchase for a large retailer like Binny's, the age statement is a closer for me.

[ILLfarmboy]

I picked up one of the new NAS OWA in Peoria today.

I just opened it and am sampling a small pour. I have palette fatigue So I'll have to come back to it latewr. In the bottle it looks a bit darker than the 08 age stated seven year bottles that i recently bought.

On the whole I like the bottle design. lots of unobstructed glass but I don't care for the transparent label. It would have been better if they would have went with a painrted on label like Baby Saz.

It has occurred to me with all of the unobstructed glass any color variation (that may be indicative of younger juice) would be easer to spot side by side on store shelves.

[Pieface]

Wrong JBB is age stated at 8 yrs

Is it Paul?

Here JBB has a large "B" in a font that could easily be mistaken for an 8. Of course JBW is a mighty 74 proof here too so it might just be an export market thing.

[cowdery]

Beam Black went NAS in international markets a couple of years ago. It's still an age-stated 8-year-old in the USA. In fact, everything Beam makes is age-stated in the USA.

If age statements are important to you, Beam is your company.

[Special Reserve]

There's a simple question, what do you prefer an age statement or taste?

I'll take taste every time.

[independant]

In fact, everything Beam makes is age-stated in the USA. If age statements are important to you, Beam is your company.

You should clarify, anything with Beam in the name not everything Beam makes

There's a simple question, what do you prefer an age statement or taste?

I'll take taste every time.

Could not agree more

[Josh]

Wrong JBB is age stated at 8 yrs

Is it Paul?

Here JBB has a large "B" in a font that could easily be mistaken for an 8. Of course JBW is a mighty 74 proof here too so it might just be an export market thing.

Beam Black went NAS in international markets a couple of years ago. It's still an age-stated 8-year-old in the USA. In fact, everything Beam makes is age-stated in the USA.

If age statements are important to you, Beam is your company.

I stand corrected. I had originally written "almost". Guess I should have kept that in!

Anyway, my point was that I don't think WSR should be considered a bottom shelfer. At that price, here anyway, it's primary competition would be Maker's Mark, not Early Times or Evan Williams. I don't see people around here picking up a case of Milwaukee's Best, a bottle of Jack and a bottle of Weller SR on a Friday night. That was my point.

I do agree that taste is what matters in the end. I doubt anyone except empty bottle collectors with their arms in slings would disagree with that. But there's something I like about age statements. It makes me feel like the distiller is holding themselves to a standard. But other than making me feel warm and fuzzy, I don't think it really makes much of a difference.

[ILLfarmboy]

There's a simple question, what do you prefer an age statement or taste?

I'll take taste every time.

Sure, I agree, but then buying your favorite brands becomes like buying fresh fruit, buy one and try it, and if it is good, go back and buy more. Ok, I exaggerate, but the point still stands.

An age statement is no grantee of unchanged taste profile, but it helps.

[p_elliott]

Is it Paul?

Here JBB has a large "B" in a font that could easily be mistaken for an 8. Of course JBW is a mighty 74 proof here too so it might just be an export market thing.

I Can't say on this family originated web site what that B stands for but Beam should be supplying a tube of vaseline with every bottle sold in OZ.

[cowdery]

I should have said that every straight whiskey Beam makes except Maker's Mark is age-stated. What else isn't?

[OscarV]

JB Rye has no age statement, at least the old label that I have, can't speak for the new label.

[doubleblank]

There is still a lot of Weller 107 in the old packaging here in Houston. I just saw a shelf full of 750's, liters and handles. I grabbed a handle for $40 to pour at the Carnivore Party this weekend. Will probably grab a few more for hunting trips, etc.

Randy

[Joshua]

I grabbed a few of the "old" OWAs... I think the biggest issue for me is paranoia. Would I buy them to drink in the future? Sure--- at some point. Price is only going up it appears, so bunkering a few isn't a BAD idea...

But then look at any other brand that has changed with proof or going NAS, everyone freaks out. Something tells me in 5-6 years, there's going to be a fair number of "Wow, I got a bottle of dusty 7 year OWA!" statements made.

Has a brand ever IMPROVED by dropping the age statement (or also lowering proof, like ER)?

[ILLfarmboy]

There is still a lot of Weller 107 in the old packaging here in Houston. I just saw a shelf full of 750's, liters and handles. I grabbed a handle for $40 to pour at the Carnivore Party this weekend. Will probably grab a few more for hunting trips, etc.

Randy

I grabbed a few of the "old" OWAs... I think the biggest issue for me is paranoia. Would I buy them to drink in the future? Sure--- at some point. Price is only going up it appears, so bunkering a few isn't a BAD idea...

But then look at any other brand that has changed with proof or going NAS, everyone freaks out. Something tells me in 5-6 years, there's going to be a fair number of "Wow, I got a bottle of dusty 7 year OWA!" statements made.

Has a brand ever IMPROVED by dropping the age statement (or also lowering proof, like ER)?

Off topic, but when events lead to threads like this one I'm reminded of one of my favorite comedy westerns, The Hallelujah Trail

"In the year 1867, signs that the approaching winter will be a hard one produce agitation in the burgeoning mining town of Denver, Colorado, as the hard-drinking citizenry fear a shortage of whiskey. Taking advice from Oracle Jones (Donald Pleasence), a local guide and seer (but only when under the influence of alcohol), the populace arrange for a mass shipment, forty wagons full of whiskey, from the Wallingham Freighting Company."

[Phantos]

I haven't seen any new bottlings yet here in ATX.

but I did stache away 4 OWA7/107s yesterday!

so the new WSR and OWA is in the bulbous WLW12 styled bottle now? not the RY style bottle?

[cowdery]

JB Rye has no age statement, at least the old label that I have, can't speak for the new label.

Fair enough. That's two. Let's say bourbons, because ri1 and Old Overcoat don't have them either.

But I just checked Old Bourbon Hollow, and it does.

[CygnusX-1]

Fair enough. That's two. Let's say bourbons, because ri1 and Old Overcoat don't have them either.

But I just checked Old Bourbon Hollow, and it does.

What about Old Grand Dad?